Anybody ONLY neck size cases?

[bozo699]

As you know, Wayne, I have a Vari-base die for my 6PPC, along with a Redding FL and Lee Collet die. As soon as the mud dries up a bit here, I will be at the range doing comparisons of the identical loads in the differently sized brass to see if I can get my mind around which is better at the target. Since the first day I saw one, I have endorsed the concept of the Lee Collet Die and believe it to be better able to give consistent neck tension than with a bushing die. This PPC is the first caliber I have ever had all the available dies to make a sensible comparison.

My .223 loads are of recent all with 40- to 55-gr. bullets over Varget. I have had several Savages with faster twists and shot 68- or 69-gr. bullets in this brass in those days. I have never lost a piece of Lapua brass to failure. Lots of my Winchester, Federal and IMI brass in .223 and .223AI have enlarged primer pockets but never yet with a Lapua.

To give as complete a picture as possible, also know that I anneal my brass after every five reloads, or sooner if I think they need it. Another thing I like about a properly adjusted Lee Collet Die is the feel you get when sizing the neck.

Spring is making headway here in the Northeast and I'm ready for a few days at the range!

Reed, A possible fly in the ointment on your testing.
Testing identical loads may leave you overlooking accuracy potential.
Its been my expierience in the PPC that loads for necksizing and FL are not the same.
For instance necksizing my gun shoots 29.6gns well.
FL sizing I need to jump to 29.8gns.

My theory on this is I'm using .2gns of powder force to reexpand that brass. Just a theory, no science.
Coupla caveats, I'm using X-Terminator and a Redding body die. Not a FL die specifically tailored to my chamber.
Hence theres a little more expansion required. I use it on every firing now.

So if you test your favorite NS load in FL brass and find a loss in accuracy don't be surprised.

Interesting post Joe,..Thanks.
Wayne.

 

[mikecr]

This is a nice to read discussion. I've been battling with folks here & elsewhere for years with my contention that FL sizing is not always required, and is in fact a choice for those who carefully plan otherwise.

It's been my experience that cases can be cycled from new to 5-6 firings before bumping is needed, and at this point, bumping is required for that brass every time(always a sad day for me).
I concede that some case designs(long, low shoulder angles, high body taper), as well as hot loads, will lead directly to FL sizing needs and there is just no getting around that.
But with better case designs and rational loads, FL sizing is never actually needed. Just neck sizing and bumping.
For most of us(by far), there are many advantages to this.

 

[BoydAllen]

There is one little detail that I feel should be pointed out. Many who read these discussions have no experience with a FL die that moves the back of a tight case, perhaps .0005. A die of this sort will not do any work on the diameter of the case body unless the case has grown large enough to need FL sizing, and if shoulder bumping is only done if the case has grown large enough from datum line to head to need it, then for moderate pressure loads, such a FL die functions only to size the neck unless more is required. My point is that like discussions that do not distinguish between cleaning factory and the best lapped match barrels, we may be comparing apples to oranges. Recently the two gun was won at the Cactus Classic, by a shooter that was shooting relatively light loads. This was worth noting because it is so rare. Most of the top shooters, use loads that require FL sizing. They pay their match fees and attempt to win the match. If barrel wear or case life is a casualty of the effort, it is considered a cost of the sport. On the other hand, for other uses a different approach may work just as well, and have the benefit of prolonging barrel and brass life. If you are able to meet your goals with lower pressure loads, then everything should last longer and cost less. If you cannot, something more expensive may be required. The good thing is...that you get to decide.

 

[K22]

I stopped neck sizing a few years ago. I always beleived that neck sizing produced more accurate reloads since it seemed logically, i.e. the case was a perfect fit to the chamber of the rifle. I also believe that it extended case life. However, the gunsmith who produced my first custom rifle advised me to try full sizing with a .002 shoulder bump. He's been in the business for 30 some years and has an outstanding reputation for producing accurate rifles so I figure maybe he knows what he's talking about.

I was suprised to learn that my reloads were in fact more accurate and more surprised that I didn't experience any loss in case life using this method of sizing. Failures when they did occur which were rare, were in the neck area just like when I was neck sizing. I expanded the prcocess to all my rifles and reloads and acheived similar results or with a few rifles no drop off in accuracy. I also noticed less run out using this method. (I used standard dies - no bushings - no competition grade, etc.)

Each rifle has it's own lot of cases and I'm very careful in sizing cases making sure that I do not over size them. Since I'm primarily a varmint hunter, I found an added beneift that the rounds chamber easier in the field. Also, I discard the case after 12 reloads as a safety precaution, I figure I've gotten my money's worth out of them and no sense pushing things.

It works for me and I very pleased with the results. Calibers I reload for are 223, 22 250, 243 and 308. Rifles" Remington, Browning, Tikka, Weatherby, Custom Remington.

 

[mikecr]

K22 have you ever considered revisiting your earlier actions to determine what specific things were going wrong?

 

[K22]

K22 have you ever considered revisiting your earlier actions to determine what specific things were going wrong?

Nothing was going wrong, in fact I'd still be neck sizing if my gunsmith didn't suggest trying full sizing with .002 shoulder bump. When I started full sizing I noticed less run out, perhaps that accounts for the accuracy improvement. As I stated previously, with some of my rifles I didn't experience any signifcant gain or loss in accuracy by full sizing.

Since I'm primarily a varmint hunter, I really like full sizing since it avoids hard chambering.

I guess my point is that I learned that neck sizing in my rilfes did not create any significant improvement in accuracy or case life and accuracy improved in some rifles by full sizing. I'll leave it to the expert to debate why, all I care about is performance.