Any 225 Winchester Shooters Here?

[Pawnee Bill]

Trying to find some load data for 80 grain Hornady ELD Match bullets. Quickload is showing me 31 gr IMR 4831 @ 2889 fps, 31 gr IMR 4350 @ 2880 fps and 27 gr IMR 4064 @ 2822. Does that sound about right?
My rifle is a custom Savage 110C with a 26 in Bartlein 1-8.

Can I use 22-250 load data as the they seem to be ballastically the same.

 

[kountryboy2]

Where are you going to find any brass for it?

 

[Pawnee Bill]

Where are you going to find any brass for it?

Been shooting it for a while. I've got 80 pieces of W-W that are sorted and weighed. Brass is not the problem as there isn't much load data available for the heavier bullets as there is for lighter ones.

 

[JohnHenry]

Case capacity of the 22-250 is approximately 5% greater than the 225.

 

[bloc]

Yes, 22-250 is about 5% greater. So multiply a 22-250 load times 0.95. I've been doing it for years.

If your rifle has a 1:14 twist, as does mine, the chances of stabilizing an 80 grain bullet are slim and none. The slow twist in so many 225 rifles is likely why there just aren't many heavy bullet loads for the 225.

 

[martini]

Traded my 225 Martini a while back and sold the brass and factory ammo (except 1 box). I only shot 50-55g bullets in it.

thanks,

Randy

 

[bloc]

By the way . . . my 225 is a post-64 Model 70 with original everything except its had its trigger improved and has a very crudely-installed recoil pad. (Why on earth, would anyone install a recoil pad on an 8 lb. 225???)

It has press checkering, an ugly glossy finish, shiny spots on the barrel and some previous owner epoxied the barreled action to the stock. It's a totally ugly, unappealing rifle.

But I've shot numerous 5 shot groups with it that were <0.5 in @100 yards all with light bullets (it struggles with 55 grain bullets and some 50 grain ones). As closely as I can measure, my best 5 shot group was 0.28 in @ 100 yards.

I think so highly of my Ugly Duckling that I put a Nightforce NXS 5.5-22x on it.

 

[219DW]

Trying to find some load data for 80 grain Hornady ELD Match bullets. Quickload is showing me 31 gr IMR 4831 @ 2889 fps, 31 gr IMR 4350 @ 2880 fps and 27 gr IMR 4064 @ 2822. Does that sound about right?
My rifle is a custom Savage 110C with a 26 in Bartlein 1-8.

Can I use 22-250 load data as the they seem to be ballastically the same.

Pawnee Bill,
I have some load info that may be of some help. I shot a .225 WW Ruger No.1 for several years. It was a 14" twist but I became familiar with the case capacity from loading for it for all those years. I shot a .219 Wasp for several years also and decided to have my own wildcat that was a lengthened .219 still using 30-30 brass. The first rifle that I had chambered for my .219DW-PDK cartridge was a Ruger No.1 with a 14" twist Shilen. After reloading for that rifle for some time, I discovered that it was virtually the same case capacity as the .225 WW. After the 75 and 80gr A-Max bullets came out I decided to have a 8" twist barrel put on a Ruger No.3 and chambered for my wildcat for a long range PD bench rifle. My goal was a 1000yd PD but best so far is a 915yd hit the last time I went to Montana in 2013. My load development started and ended with H4350. Early on in load testing I tried 34.0gr H4350 with 75gr A-max that shot .4 at 100 at 3200 fps so I have stuck with it. 33.0gr of H4350 and the 80gr A-max went 3110 fps but wasn't as accurate in my rifle. This barrel is a Shilen #7HV and is 27" long.
The Quickload data seems really mild to me, but I don't know if that is starting loads or max.
My experience has the capacity of the .225 at least 2gr and probably closer to 3gr less than the 22-250.
Another caution is the capacity of .225 brass made at different times. When I bought the .225 No.1 back in 1995 I got 40 rounds of factory loads with it. That brass was about 20gr heavier than the 300 bulk brass that I got from Graf and Sons. I scrapped that 40 pieces so I wouldn't accidentally load one of them with a load developed in the lighter brass.
Dave

 

[Pawnee Bill]

Pawnee Bill,
I have some load info that may be of some help. I shot a .225 WW Ruger No.1 for several years. It was a 14" twist but I became familiar with the case capacity from loading for it for all those years. I shot a .219 Wasp for several years also and decided to have my own wildcat that was a lengthened .219 still using 30-30 brass. The first rifle that I had chambered for my .219DW-PDK cartridge was a Ruger No.1 with a 14" twist Shilen. After reloading for that rifle for some time, I discovered that it was virtually the same case capacity as the .225 WW. After the 75 and 80gr A-Max bullets came out I decided to have a 8" twist barrel put on a Ruger No.3 and chambered for my wildcat for a long range PD bench rifle. My goal was a 1000yd PD but best so far is a 915yd hit the last time I went to Montana in 2013. My load development started and ended with H4350. Early on in load testing I tried 34.0gr H4350 with 75gr A-max that shot .4 at 100 at 3200 fps so I have stuck with it. 33.0gr of H4350 and the 80gr A-max went 3110 fps but wasn't as accurate in my rifle. This barrel is a Shilen #7HV and is 27" long.
The Quickload data seems really mild to me, but I don't know if that is starting loads or max.
My experience has the capacity of the .225 at least 2gr and probably closer to 3gr less than the 22-250.
Another caution is the capacity of .225 brass made at different times. When I bought the .225 No.1 back in 1995 I got 40 rounds of factory loads with it. That brass was about 20gr heavier than the 300 bulk brass that I got from Graf and Sons. I scrapped that 40 pieces so I wouldn't accidentally load one of them with a load developed in the lighter brass.
Dave

Thanks for the info Dave! I was real close to having a 219 DW built just for nostalgia but also because it was no slouch in its day and took many BR matches. Then for some reason I stumbled on the 225 and decided to go that route as you can find 225 Win brass but 219 DW brass is pretty hard to come by and making them is a pain. I'll try the 4350 load and see if my Savage likes it. So far, my best groups have been with Sierra 55 grain Blitzking with 31 gr of BL(C)2 running around 3400 fps. I wanted to use the heavier bullets at 400 yds to see how they do.

I found plenty of W-W brass on ebay of all places and weight sorted them and wound up with about 80 cases out of 100 that are good. I found the short neck on the 225 not real conducive to seating long bullets as the bullet compresses the powder.

 

[bloc]

Dave, I know you can create .225 brass from .30-30 brass. I heard somewhere that while that is possible, the .30-30 brass is not as thick as the .225, and because the .30-30 operates at significantly lower pressures than the .225, some risk might attach to such repurposed .30-30 brass.

I'm not sure if I buy this, but when it comes to reloading I err on the side of caution. But, if .30-30 brass works well for your version of the DW, it seems to me it should be safe for full-power .225 reloads.

Thoughts?

 

[219DW]

Dave, I know you can create .225 brass from .30-30 brass. I heard somewhere that while that is possible, the .30-30 brass is not as thick as the .225, and because the .30-30 operates at significantly lower pressures than the .225, some risk might attach to such repurposed .30-30 brass.

I'm not sure if I buy this, but when it comes to reloading I err on the side of caution. But, if .30-30 brass works well for your version of the DW, it seems to me it should be safe for full-power .225 reloads.

Thoughts?

I have also read that 30-30 brass is not as thick as .225. I was able to buy plenty of .225 brass so that's what I used in my .225 Ruger No. 1.
I also think 30-30 factory load pressure is lower because of the weaker rifles that are chambered for it.
Modern 30-30 brass seems to be able to handle quite a bit more pressure if fired in a Ruger No. 1 or 3 or any other action built for high pressure.
For example, I've fired well over 10,000 rounds using R-P and WW 30-30 brass in my .219 Wasp, 204 Wasp and .219DW-PDK Rugers and not had any primer pockets loosen.
My intent was to share a load that shot very well in a case that is very close to the .225 in powder capacity and shape.
I did forget to add that he should reduce powder charge and work up.
Dave

 

[Tim s]

Gotta love the 225, been lucky to have good supplies of new Win brass, pretty much settled on 52-55 grainers over 4064 out of a C.C. Johnson set trigger highwall.
Lots of 30-30 brass is fine, use it for a straight 219 Zipper and it will push 55’s to 3450 fps over 4895.

 

[bloc]

Thanks guys. Dave, my sense was that, given 225 pressures, the main limiting factor would be the strength of the action, not the pressure of the load. I mean, to me, logic dictates that the chamber wall itself and the locking strength of the action would be far more important than the strength of the brass (within reason). But to hear what someone with first hand experience has to say carries great weight.

Tim, I'm focussed on 40 Bergers right now at 3700. I sure could push them faster, but it's hard for me to do so when I get the kind of accuracy I get. Plus, I use this rifle for ground squirrels, and most of the ones I shoot are pretty small. If I can make one into chunks at 300 yards, I'm happy. When I manage to hit one at 350, I'm all a-twitter!

 

[Tommie]

Besides for having thinner brass, keep in mind that 30-30 brass measures .416 at the base. Running it in a .225 chamber will (at the least) result in bulging.

 

[Tim s]

Thanks guys. Dave, my sense was that, given 225 pressures, the main limiting factor would be the strength of the action, not the pressure of the load. I mean, to me, logic dictates that the chamber wall itself and the locking strength of the action would be far more important than the strength of the brass (within reason). But to hear what someone with first hand experience has to say carries great weight.

Tim, I'm focussed on 40 Bergers right now at 3700. I sure could push them faster, but it's hard for me to do so when I get the kind of accuracy I get. Plus, I use this rifle for ground squirrels, and most of the ones I shoot are pretty small. If I can make one into chunks at 300 yards, I'm happy. When I manage to hit one at 350, I'm all a-twitter!

You want to try out the Calhoon 37gr double hollowpoints, they shoot very well and are like little hand grenades on the other end,I shoot them in another ‘wall inan R2 .