Any 224 Hybrid Hopes?

[deadduck357]

Any new news of Litz designing a 224 hybrid? Noticed an old post from 2015 but nothing lately. With the ELD and now Federal about to drop their "new" cartridge I'm surprised Berger hasn't got a hybrid option. A 75-80 gr hybrid in either the target or elite hunter or tactical should have the length to rival the 90 gr VLD BC.

 

[deadduck357]

Well I guess that answered my question.

 

[RDavies]

Well I guess that answered my question.

I know I would like something to come out which will help to bridge the gap slightly between 223s and 308 F/TR loads. Maybe an 85gn bullet would be good.

 

[XTR]

You aren't going to rival the BC of the 90VLD in a lighter bullet with out making it a whole lot longer with a lot of copper in place of the lead, and that's not going to fit into anything shorter than a 308 sized magazine, and is going to need something faster than a 1:7 to stabilize.

I'm not sure there is much that can be done with the 223 beyond where we are with the current 80s and the 90VLD.

The Hornady 80ELD that replaced the 80Amax has about the best BC out in an 80. Between the 80s and the 90VLD is the 90 Sierra. It is easier to get to shoot than the 90VLD, and is almost as slick.

The 90VLD will run with the 185Juggs out to 1000 yards in an F-TR rifle, but most F-TR shooters (at least in the states) are shooting 200s now. The problem most seem to have encountered in trying get the 223 to shoot to 1000 in F class is that it's nearly impossible to keep the ES down to levels that will keep you competitive in F-TR. (For the record I shoot a 223 with 90VLDs in mid range F-TR and love it)

Bryan commented in here once on further development in the 223. If I recall correctly, the gist was that the case holds a special place because of TR/Palma/F-TR and trying to make a low recoil round that will run with the 308s but that there isn't a whole lot left that can be done

 

[deadduck357]

I know I would like something to come out which will help to bridge the gap slightly between 223s and 308 F/TR loads. Maybe an 85gn bullet would be good.

You aren't going to rival the BC of the 90VLD in a lighter bullet with out making it a whole lot longer with a lot of copper in place of the lead, and that's not going to fit into anything shorter than a 308 sized magazine, and is going to need something faster than a 1:7 to stabilize.

I'm not sure there is much that can be done with the 223 beyond where we are with the current 80s and the 90VLD.

The Hornady 80ELD that replaced the 80Amax has about the best BC out in an 80. Between the 80s and the 90VLD is the 90 Sierra. It is easier to get to shoot than the 90VLD, and is almost as slick.

The 90VLD will run with the 185Juggs out to 1000 yards in an F-TR rifle, but most F-TR shooters (at least in the states) are shooting 200s now. The problem most seem to have encountered in trying get the 223 to shoot to 1000 in F class is that it's nearly impossible to keep the ES down to levels that will keep you competitive in F-TR. (For the record I shoot a 223 with 90VLDs in mid range F-TR and love it)

Bryan commented in here once on further development in the 223. If I recall correctly, the gist was that the case holds a special place because of TR/Palma/F-TR and trying to make a low recoil round that will run with the 308s but that there isn't a whole lot left that can be done

Might not match the VLD but a 80 hybrid design should stretch it out to get close in BC but be lighter.

Yes I like to 80 ELDs, just wondering why Berger or Litz hasn't done a hybrid.

Should be good in the 224 Valkyrie.

 

[skiutah02]

You aren't going to rival the BC of the 90VLD in a lighter bullet with out making it a whole lot longer with a lot of copper in place of the lead, and that's not going to fit into anything shorter than a 308 sized magazine, and is going to need something faster than a 1:7 to stabilize.

I'm not sure there is much that can be done with the 223 beyond where we are with the current 80s and the 90VLD.

The Hornady 80ELD that replaced the 80Amax has about the best BC out in an 80. Between the 80s and the 90VLD is the 90 Sierra. It is easier to get to shoot than the 90VLD, and is almost as slick.

The 90VLD will run with the 185Juggs out to 1000 yards in an F-TR rifle, but most F-TR shooters (at least in the states) are shooting 200s now. The problem most seem to have encountered in trying get the 223 to shoot to 1000 in F class is that it's nearly impossible to keep the ES down to levels that will keep you competitive in F-TR. (For the record I shoot a 223 with 90VLDs in mid range F-TR and love it)

Bryan commented in here once on further development in the 223. If I recall correctly, the gist was that the case holds a special place because of TR/Palma/F-TR and trying to make a low recoil round that will run with the 308s but that there isn't a whole lot left that can be done

^yep

 

[jsthntn247]

I was told this past weekend that another bullet company might have a design that would be what we are all looking for but would be 95 grains. Question is from a marketing/selling stand point how many bullets would they be able to sale to make it profitable? Not many folks looking for a 224 strictly target bullet that have a 6 or 6.5 twist barrel.... but I do, lol.

 

[USMCDOC]

For as long as the years that i had shot the 90VLD's i had asked Brain about a hybrid when the notion of it first came up from him. We had concluded that if it were done, that the weight of it would most likely be around 87 grains. But realistically, producing it probably does not out weigh the dividend of the return in using such a bullet in the 223. And it would most likely be more of a finickier bullet to get to tune!

 

[VaRandy]

I would jump on these if available.

 

[USMCDOC]

I would jump on these if available.

Randy, i wouldn't expect it to happen..

 

[deadduck357]

I was told this past weekend that another bullet company might have a design that would be what we are all looking for but would be 95 grains. Question is from a marketing/selling stand point how many bullets would they be able to sale to make it profitable? Not many folks looking for a 224 strictly target bullet that have a 6 or 6.5 twist barrel.... but I do, lol.

That would be on the heavy side for a .224. A 75-87gr would be better.

Care to divulge?

 

[deadduck357]

For as long as the years that i had shot the 90VLD's i had asked Brain about a hybrid when the notion of it first came up from him. We had concluded that if it were done, that the weight of it would most likely be around 87 grains. But realistically, producing it probably does not out weigh the dividend of the return in using such a bullet in the 223. And it would most likely be more of a finickier bullet to get to tune!

Have heard of the talk about it, was just curious of any further info.

 

[USMCDOC]

Have heard of the talk about it, was just curious of any further info.

i really don't think that they are going to put a real effort into it. The "hybrid" design apparently just doesn't benefit the caliber as well as the larger ones.

On another note, i had always wondered why there isn't a great assortment of "match" quality bullets for the 25 and 27 calibers..

 

[deadduck357]

On another note, i had always wondered why there isn't a great assortment of "match" quality bullets for the 25 and 27 calibers..

I'm 100% with you on that. Especially the .257.

 

[nmkid]

HA. I've been waiting on a "match" quality bullet for .25 for only 15 years!