Anschutz 54 decocks on bolt closing

[NateHaler]

Finally getting around to testing this rifle, which appears to be in excellent, seldom-used condition. It's an 1807 MS (single shot Metallic Silhouette) with the factory-equipped 5018 trigger.

Unfortunately, the bolt decocks on closing, which of course is a problem. Trigger assembly had some grease in it (grey/graphite looking stuff) so I cleaned that out. The various screws are in various positions of in/out but I looked at Anschutz diagrams and learned which screw is supposed to do what. Turning the trigger weight screw in all the way (heaviest setting) did not solve the problem. Dang.

I fiddled with the other screws, counting turns so I could put them back into their 'original' settings, but no luck. Double dang.

However, if I switch the safety to Safe (S) before I close the bolt, then close the bolt, the rifle stays cocked. And if I then switch the safety to Fire (F), I can work the bolt back and forth, open and close, and the rifle stays cocked. I'm hoping that's a clue as to what the heck is going on with this rifle.

Anybody?

 

[mike mccormick]

Needs more sear engagement. There is an adjustment for that

 

[MHaws]

I bought a Savage Anschutz 64 that had sit in a safe from the 70's, the guy said he had kept it oiled and clean. this trigger did the same thing as yours, I talked to one of our local gun smiths and he recommended that I should use a carburetor spray cleaner, it worked. Looked like the previous owner used WD40.

 

[Walt Krafft]

The mounting holes on a 5018 are slotted. This allows the trigger to move forward and backward to set the amount of cock on close. Move the trigger towards the rear.

 

[Tim Slater]

The mounting holes on a 5018 are slotted. This allows the trigger to move forward and backward to set the amount of cock on close. Move the trigger towards the rear.

Hmm, I don't think that adjusting the fore-aft position of the trigger will prevent the firing pin bent riding over it. That adjustment is meant to ensure there is no cock-on-close. Moving the trigger back will compress the firing spring more; this may be the solution when the firing pin is storming cases too light. In this case, it will just put more pressure on the trigger, pressure it already can't hold.

If the firing pin is riding over the trigger, usually there is not enough internal resistance either sear engagement (second screw from the front) or weight (rearmost screws), although the travel distance can also affect operation. However, my 1913 failed to cock when the ends of pivot pins were binding on the stock. The contact stopped the trigger resetting properly so it couldn't catch the bent.

 

[NateHaler]

I removed the trigger, and I'll try remounting it slightly rearward. As to the black grease/graphite stuff in it, apparently that might be factory lube -- per another web reference I saw (US shooting team stuff maybe). And this grease appears to only be present where the sear engages (or is supposed to engage) the other gizmo.

However, having gone through all the screw adjustments except for one, and nothing making the slightest bit of improvement, I wonder if it could be #11 (aka 'adjustable trigger cam') on the page you can see here: https://njshooting.tripod.com/Trigger.htm#photo

Because it appears that the little hex screw is set in-between the two outer positions of the slot in this mechanism, rather than to one extreme or the other. (This cam apparently enables the trigger, depending on which side it is selected, to have a pull weight range of 2 oz to 8 oz, or 3.5 oz to 1.5 lbs.)

Maybe the picture in the following post will help somebody diagnose the issue? (It's snowing here in the Texas Hill Country, just south of Johnson City, and I can spend the rest of the day tinkering with this 54 MS...)

 

[NateHaler]

I'm having a helluva time trying to post pictures. WiFi signal is terrible here on good days, and can't get my camera to download the images so I can attach them.

 

[Tim Slater]

Nate,

When properly adjusted a 5018 should hold the firing pin (even if the bolt is worked smartly) at low weight. The cam for coarse weight adjustment is just that, to set the weight as you want, not for function.

When you mount the trigger again, don't fully tighten the bolts. Leave enough slack that it moves when tapped; I use a small spanner. Close the bolt, and watch the pin at the back as you close the handle. Ideally the pin will barely move as you close the bolt handle, showing the bent has a smooth transition from the cam in the bolt handle to the trigger. If the pin jumps back, the trigger us too far to the rear and is pushing the firing pin back once it comes off the cam. If the pin jumps into the bolt the trigger is too far forwards. Of course this requires the bolt to stay cocked.

Again I suspect there wasn't enough sear engagement, (or possible weight, or maybe travel). The 5018 is quite sensitive, and small adjustments can have a big effect.

 

[NateHaler]

 

[hogpatrol]

I had issues with a 64 trigger similar to what you are experiencing. It was dirt. A good cleaning and no more problems.

 

[NateHaler]

One of the reasons I removed the trigger (and removed the plastic blade) was to thoroughly clean it with spray stuff. I guess at this point I should just hose it down, blow it out (air compressor) and hope for the best. Or, I could disassemble one of my other Anschutz rifles and see if there are visual comparisons to diagnose the problem in this one.

The rifle was remarkably clean overall, and the trigger assembly too. Nothing like I've seen in some other pics where similar issues were discussed. But, maybe it's dirtier than it looks.

 

[243Lapua]

The mounting holes on a 5018 are slotted. This allows the trigger to move forward and backward to set the amount of cock on close. Move the trigger towards the rear.

What Walt said. I dealt with this before. Forward or backward adjustment first, don't mess with the spring adjustment unless you have knowledge.

 

[Tim Slater]

What Walt said. I dealt with this before. Forward or backward adjustment first, don't mess with the spring adjustment unless you have knowledge.

How will increasing the compression of the springs help the trigger to hold back the firing pin though?

The position of the trigger relative to the firing pin can help with balancing ignition and closing force, but won't change what's happening inside the trigger?

 

[Walt Krafft]

If the trigger is too far forward it will never pick up the firing pin..

 

[Tim Slater]

If the trigger is too far forward it will never pick up the firing pin..

Conceivably so, but highly unlikely. A 5071 would sit too far forwards to contact an 18xx firing pin, but the OP's photos clearly show a 5018 trigger.

I still hold that if the bolt is decocking as it closes, the trigger is not holding back the firing pin as it leaves the cocking cam.

 

[NateHaler]

But what about switching the safety on before closing the bolt, then doing so, and it stays cocked? Then switching the safety off, opening the bolt and pulling it rearward, pushing it forward and closing it, and it stays cocked?

What role does the safety have in that scenario? I have peered at this trigger with my glasses off (enabling me to see it really well because I am extremely nearsighted), and cannot figure out what is going on.

However, it looks to me that the sear and the gizmo that engages it -- don't know the terminology, sorry -- do NOT engage nearly enough to be working properly, regardless of the screw settings. So, apparently there is force being applied during the cocking action that presumably pushes these parts together -- or at least does so when the safety is on in my faulty setup.

I would post a picture but having a lot of trouble with this today.

Really appreciate your ideas though. This is maddening, but a learning experience for me.

 

[243Lapua]

Welcome to ISS, Air Rifles

Call Neal

 

[Thauglor]

If it is not the position of the trigger unit, then is the rifle not resetting after pulling the trigger? Do you have to pull the trigger when the bolt is pulled back to get it to reset and then closing the bolt works?

 

[Eugenious]

I'm with Tim on this one...for more sear engagement, turn the screw (#5)directly in front of your trigger blade counter clockwise

 

[NateHaler]

I'm with Tim on this one...for more sear engagement, turn the screw (#5)directly in front of your trigger blade counter clockwise

Did this very early on in the process. Backed it out to the furthest extent possible. No effect.