Annoying scenario I'm running into right now.

[Hunter2678]

Ok so here's my dilemma.

I've got 2 rifles (6x47 Lapua) that have been chambered with the same reamer. One rifle was done at Kelbly's the other at a local gunsmith. The Kelbly rifle requires that I shoulder bump the brass at least .006 after its been fired in order for me to close the bolt with some semblance of ease. The other rifle needs only about .003-.004 shoulder bump to close the bolt with absolute ease. My Die is a Whidden FL bushing die. So in short a resized case thats been bumped .003 to .004 will work fine in the one rifle but that same case wont work in the other rifle (kelbly) as it will give me a very stiff bolt closing.

The other issue Im running into is that on the older brass I cant bump the shoulder past a certain point at all so that brass wont work or allow me to close the bolt on the Kelbly rifle. Does brass get to the point where it simply wont bump past a certain point? I know brass gets work hardened but never thought of how it might affect the shoulder bump process. Any ideas on how I can get this to go away while using the same die or will I need to run only fresh brass in the one gun and older brass in the other since I cant beat it into submission?

 

[LHSmith]

ALWAYS segregate brass to one barrel...even if chambered from the same reamer.
Remove a few thousandths from the top of the shellholder in order to get more bump. Make note (perhaps paint it) that the S/H was modified so it does not affect other die settings that may have been used with that S/H.

 

[/VH]

Sounds like maybe you have a mismatch between chamber and die in the body diameters, or possibly dirty chambers.

Are your bolts stripped? Are you measuring with a comparator?

 

[fguffey]

I've got 2 rifles (6x47 Lapua) that have been chambered with the same reamer. One rifle was done at Kelbly's the other at a local gunsmith. The Kelbly rifle requires that I shoulder bump the brass at least .006 after its been fired in order for me to close the bolt with some semblance of ease. The other rifle needs only about .003-.004 shoulder bump to close the bolt with absolute ease. My Die is a Whidden bushing die. So in short a resized case that's been bumped .003 to .004 will work fine in the one rifle but that same case wont work in the other rifle (kelbly) as it will give me a very stiff bolt closing.

Remove a few thousandths from the top of the shell holder in order to get more bump

That makes absolutely no sense; the shell holder is not the problem. The die and shell holder have the ability to size the case with out modifying the die and or shell holder. I believe the problem is with your methods and or techniques. I suggest you learn to measure the length of the case from the shoulder to the case head before firing and again after firing. And then; measure the length of the case from the shoulder to the case head before sizing and again after sizing. Had you measured before and again you would have enticed the two chambers have a different length from the shoulder to the bolt face.


F. Guffey

 

[Hunter2678]

That makes absolutely no sense; the shell holder is not the problem. The die and shell holder have the ability to size the case with out modifying the die and or shell holder. I believe the problem is with your methods and or techniques. I suggest you learn to measure the length of the case from the shoulder to the case head before firing and again after firing. And then; measure the length of the case from the shoulder to the case head before sizing and again after sizing. Had you measured before and again you would have enticed the two chambers have a different length from the shoulder to the bolt face.


F. Guffey

I do have a shoulder bump gauge that I use to get these readings. Yes before and after. After the cases are fired they all read the same from each chamber..then when I re-size, I re-measure the case at the shoulder with the bump gauge to verify that they have in fact been bumped .004. That case will work fine in one gun but wont allow me an easy bolt close in the other.

 

[Joe Salt]

To me your problem is you had two different Smiths do your chambers! My gunsmith has done 8 chamber jobs and the brass will go from my H.G.'s To My L.G.'s if I needed to. He told me all you have to do is get the numbers right.

Joe Salt

 

[ireload2]

You are assuming the same reamer was used just because that is what you wanted and what you asked for. That does not mean either business actually used your reamer.
You can tell the work intake person anything and that does not mean the guy on the lathe gets the message. Even if he is the same person but does not follow accurate instructions you will not get what you expect. I have seen this happen thousands of times in manufacturing.

Treat the rifles as totally different rifles. There is no reason on this earth that you would have to bump the shoulder of any rifle .006 to get its own fired cases back into the chamber again. If you can't there is something wrong with your technique or the die. How a smith could mess the rifle up like that I don't know but I am sure it has happened. I guess I am saying is there is NO magic.

Try some other loading die and process. Try an ordinary Wilson neck bushing die in which there is no bumping of anything.
Tell us how you came by the Whidden Die and what rifle was it made for? How did you specify what you wanted dimensionally when you ordered the custom die?

Make up a little table or spreadsheet.
Measure the shoulder to head length of new brass, and measure new cases after they have been fired in each rifle but before any loading.
Measure the shoulder diameter, the pressure ring diameter and the head to shoulder length.

Make the same measurements as you set up your die to size this brass and you should find the problem.

About the hard to work with brass
You may have a dimensional issue with your die. Find some oversize brass from a different rifle and anneal it. Try it in your die and then measure it compared to once fired brass out of your rifles.

Have you ever noticed all of the postings on annealing brass? Try it on some of your cases.

Your questions only mention one measurement related to bumping. Try measuring everything and you may find the answer.

 

[fguffey]

To me your problem is you had two different Smiths do your chambers!

It would seem one smith or the other could have measured the length of the chamber from the shoulder to the bolt face in thousandths.

He told me all you have to do is get the numbers right.

"All you have to do is etc.." I would have to say the smith would have to own and learn to use standards.

F. Guffey

 

[fguffey]

I do have a shoulder bump gauge that I use to get these readings. Yes before and after. After the cases are fired they all read the same from each chamber..then when I re-size, I re-measure the case at the shoulder with the bump gauge to verify that they have in fact been bumped .004. That case will work fine in one gun but wont allow me an easy bolt close in the other.

I am the only person reading this thread that will never have this problem; because I do not use fixed gages, go-gages are nice, I will say the same for the no go-gage and field reject length gage; problem, there can be .005" difference in length between the go and no-go gage and .011" difference in length between the go gage and filed reject length gage.

And then there is the chamber cast.

F. Guffey

 

[snowpro440]

I would just buy another fl neck sizing die and assign it the appropriate gun so that it chambers the brass .....not worth the aggravation...

 

[Joe Salt]

fguffey Sounds like you are the man for the job. I had same gunsmiths do two chamber jobs for me and they weren't even close. Sorry

Joe Salt

 

[ireload2]

jajajajajajaja
Can be? duh
Don't you think they (go, no go and field) were designed to be different for specific functions.
They are after all called functional gauges and were used to build most of the rifles on this planet.

That the various gages were designed at different lengths seems to be a problem only in your head.

I am the only person reading this thread that will never have this problem; because I do not use fixed gages, go-gages are nice, I will say the same for the no go-gage and field reject length gage; problem, there can be .005" difference in length between the go and no-go gage and .011" difference in length between the go gage and filed reject length gage.

And then there is the chamber cast.

F. Guffey

 

[CJ6]

Ok so here's my dilemma.

I've got 2 rifles (6x47 Lapua) that have been chambered with the same reamer.

Do you own the reamer ? and did you send the reamer to each party ? Was it sharpened between chambers ?

 

[Hunter2678]

I would just buy another fl neck sizing die and assign it the appropriate gun so that it chambers the brass .....not worth the aggravation...

That's most likely going to be my workaround.... I emailed the smith this morning at kelbly who did the chamber job to get his thoughts. I know for a fact that the other guy used the finish reamer I supplied him with because he didn't have that finish reamer to begin with.

 

[Hunter2678]

Do you own the reamer ? and did you send the reamer to each party ? Was it sharpened between chambers ?

Yes I got it from PTG, I supplied it to both smiths for each job. its only chambered two barrels. Do they need sharpened between each job? I didn't think that was needed for only a few times being used.

 

[CJ6]

Yes I got it from PTG, I supplied it to both smiths for each job. its only chambered two barrels. Do they need sharpened between each job? I didn't think that was needed for only a few times being used.

It shouldn't need to be, but asking anyway.

 

[dkhunt14]

Sometimes on minimum headspaced guns, the die won't bump the shoulder enough. On this gun you would have to grind a little off a shell holder. You said the cases were fired multiple times. On a case that is reloaded 4 or 5 times you will get less bump. The brass is harder ands resists sizing. You can anneal that case and it will now bump 4 or 5 thousandths more then when it was hard with the same die setting. You will either need to set up two shellholders with one ground or use another die for the other one. Just sounds like the headspacing is a little more on one then the other. Matt

 

[savagedasher]

You have a head space problem. And a big one The total of .002
If you have the reamer take the barrel off and hand fit the chamber . Larry

 

[fguffey]

Sometimes on minimum headspaced guns, the die won't bump the shoulder enough. On this gun you would have to grind a little off a shell holder. You said the cases were fired multiple times. On a case that is reloaded 4 or 5 times you will get less bump. The brass is harder ands resists sizing. You can anneal that case and it will now bump 4 or 5 thousandths more then when it was hard with the same die setting. You will either need to set up two shellholders with one ground or use another die for the other one. Just sounds like the headspacing is a little more on one then the other. Matt

Or he can increase the presses ability to overcome the cases ability to resist sizing. There is the 1/4 additional turn of the die, when that does not do it there is always the additional 1/4 turn to 1/2 additional turn. But! Before I grind a die and or a shell holder I want to know by how much. Then there is the case with head space, my cases do not have head space; I off set the length of the chamber with the length of the case from the shoulder of the case to the case head.

F. Guffey

 

[DCRYDER]

You have a head space problem. And a big one The total of .002
If you have the reamer take the barrel off and hand fit the chamber . Larry

.002" is hardly a big problem.