annealing ?

[Kenny474]

Thats an interesting opinion. I have a few questions after reading your reply. If heat transfers down the brass with it being exposed why do most annealing machines leave the brass exposed? In my opinion the only way to prove that the heat is transferring down the brass during annealing would be to use the lower temp tempilac on the lower part of the brass to measure the heat transfer. I think you will find that you don't get near the heat transfer that most would think. Does $30 really seem expensive for quality product made of stainless steel? Keep in mind that the lesser quality hornady kit sells for around $50 - $60.

If anyone is interested in a great tool for holding cases while annealing you should check this out. The tool holds cases via the primer pockets. www.customreloadingtools.com/custom_reloading_tools_002.htm

While it's a nice tool, it too suffers from a few shortcomings. The lack of covering the case body leaves too much of the case exposed to heat, which could allow the heat to transfer farther down the body than desired. It also cost quite a bit for a case holder as well.

The deep socket is still one of the best, and probably lowest cost as well, options to hold a case while annealing. It shields the case body from heat and also acts as a heat sink to prevent the case from being excessively heated, adding a measure of safety not found even in some of the most expensive case holders. You don't have to attach it to the case in any way as you simply drop the case in and tip it upside down to drop the case out. They are available at most every hardware store and several other places as well, and many already have them anyway. I just think it's so easy to use and costs so little that it's foolish to even consider buying another type of holder, unless you go all out and buy an annealing machine.

I have measured the temperature of the brass below the shoulder with an infrared thermometer when using a Lee case holder and lock stud and also when using a deep socket. The brass in the socket is always cooler, and usually by a good amount.
I agree that with extended use the socket will start to warm up a bit, but a cold, wet towel with some ice folded inside to lay the socket on while spinning cools it right off quickly.

As far as the tool being costly is concerned, I can not justify spending ten times more money on a tool that offers no significant benefit over the lesser priced and more easily attainable tool that performs the same function. And, in my opinion, adds a level of safety over the other and is also quicker and easier to install and remove the cases.

And as far as quality is concerned, my Stanley sockets are chrome vanadium steel with a lifetime warranty. I doubt anything made of stainless is near equal to the strength and durability of the socket, nor will it likely have as good of a warranty.

And most of the quality annealing machines do have deep holes in a machined aluminum turntable, though others have the thin aluminum plate as well. But the annealing machines have the torches solid mounted, where a guy with a drill in one hand and a torch on a table or in his other hand is far more likely to apply heat lower than necessary simply by accident. And when the socket is there, it will simply heat the socket a small amount rather than heat below the shoulder. It's not a huge risk, as it does take several seconds to heat the brass enough to be an issue, but it's added safety none the less.

I just don't see the tool being worth $32 when there are other options readily available that do such a good job as it is.
Is it a nice tool? Yes, it appears to be built well. But as I stated before, there are others that are cheaper and just as durable and will work just as well if not better. So why make a $32 investment when you can make a $3 investment and still get the job done just as effectively?

 

[bozo699]

jo191145,
I have one of the hornady annealing tools and I don't consider them overly expensive.
The cost of the hornady kit is 46 dallars $46-$16 for tempilaq = $30/3 tools for different size cases= $10 per tool I call that inexpensive compared to there concentricity guage that doesn't work for $99. I do think the sockets are a great idea.
Wayne

 

[RonAKA]

I've used the drill and Lee holder method for hundreds of case trimmings, as well as for annealing, and find it quite satisfactory. Yes, I do wear gloves, and I put the drill in a vice so I don't have to worry about it. I've not seen any issues with too much heat going down the cartridge. That said I will give the socket a try. Always looking to find ways to improve.

On the annealing process I think there is some misinformation on the internet. One is that it is practical to anneal at 600-650 F. Takes way too long and if you don't have the bases in water, then yes you could overheat the base. The other is that brass self destructs if you take the temperature over 800 F, by getting you into the dreaded "over annealed" condition. I think you anneal or you don't. For sure you don't want to anneal the body or base, but the objective is to anneal the neck and shoulder. The annealing temperature range starts at 800F and goes all the way up to 1400F. See the link below.

http://www.substech.com/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=wrought_copper_alloy_c26000_cartridge_brass

I think the best method is to get is to 800 or a little over for a few seconds, and then cool it off. My experience in industry with infrared measurements is that they are totally unreliable. They depend way too much on the surface texture and color. Templac and Tempilsticks are reliable but slow. You need a quick method that you have "calibrated" by using the Temp products. This leaves you with either watching the color of the brass change in full light -- where you are not seeing any red glow, or do it in the dark where you can see the glow. I'm thinking the later may be more accurate.

 

[jmatters]

For $50, I send 200 de-primed cases to DJ's Brass, and he cleans them ultrasonically, inspects the necks, anneals them and ships them back inside of a week.

I don't have the time to devote to learning a new process with new equipment for a procedure that will only be done perhaps 3 times a year. For me, it makes more sense to spend a few bucks and have an expert at that process take care of it.

For others, I'm sure it will be more fun or more rewarding to master another process. I'm just saying there's a good alternative out there if you weren't aware of it.

 

[Wirelessguy2005]

I totally understand where you guys are coming from on the price comparison. There are guys who will make do with the socket method and guys who prefer a purpose built tool for annealing. I happen to like the purpose built tools, call me crazy i guess. ;D

Wireless

No offense but I have to side with Kenny. In my area we have el cheapo stores that will sell a 8pc set of 1/4"deep dish sockets for $8. Choose the ones that fit your brass and give the rest to someone you despise or break them yourself ;D

The product you linked to is probably the next best thing. While a deep dish offers protection from the flame it can get very hot if your running through lots of brass. I used to buy into the heatsink theory but no longer. For average use I say a DD socket can't be beat. Your product may be better if running huge amounts of brass. Either way its a small distinction.
I can run a DD socket at just about any angle I feel comfortable with. Not sure if a primer adapter can say the same.
If the Hornady set costs as much as you say it does, shame on them.

Either way the product you referenced is much better for the average shooter than one of the auto annealers for big $$$. I just can't imagine actually needing one of those babies. I shoot about 8000 rds a year and annealing is just a small part of the prep.