Ammo testing new RRA Service Rifle

[NMcarbine]

Hi guys....I have put together something I hope to use in Service Rifle competition. My research led me to the White Oak company where I decided what I wanted to build, but was able to shop around and put something similar together. White Oak uses Wilson Heavy Match barrels, they suggested a NM trigger, and the UBR stock. I was able to pick up a UBR stock with a free lower. Picked up a Hi-Speed match trigger, and discovered the RRA CMP 2016 upper with 20" 1:8 Wylde which I think is the same Wilson Match barrel. Got a dealer deal on the upper at a great price. So..that is the config that I threw a Viper PST on top of.

Over time I have accumulated a variety of .223 or 5.56 ammo and I wanted to learn more about what the rifle would shoot, and figure out if I can get some lower cost ammo good enough for a local 100yd match without burning up 77gr SMKs. Sorted by gr then Mfg.

Fiocchi 223HVB Extrema 40
Remington L223R7 UMC 45
Winchester USA2232 Varmint and Predator White Box 45
Federal AE223G AE Varmint and Predator 50
Fiocchi 223HVA Extrema 50
Cor-Bon PM22355 55
Federal AE223 AE 55
Federal XM193 AE XM193 AR5.56 55
Federal XM193H AE Tactical XM193 55
PMC 223A Bronze 55
PMC 556X X-TAC 55
Remington L223R3V UMC Value Pack 55
Sellier & Bellot A55603 M193 55
Wolf G22355 Gold 55
Hornady 80234 Black 62
IMI M855210 M855 62
Remington L223R9 UMC 62
Federal XM856 AE Tactical Tracer 64
Black Hills M223N5 Red 68
Hornady 80289 Match 68
Black Hills M223R12 Blue 69
IMI 69RAZOR Razor Core 69
Privi Partisan PP5.7 PPU Match 69
Hornady 80261 Steel Match 75
Hornady 80264 Superperformance Match 75
Hornady 8026? Match 75
HPR 223075BTH 75
Privi Partisan PP5.4 PPU Match 75
Federal FC262 FC262 OTM (MK262) 77
IMI 77RAZOR Razor Core 77
Sig Sauer E223M1-20 Elite Performance Match Grade 77

I know there are a lot of cartridges you won't find on the list, and some of this ammo is obsolete so testing is for curiosity, not because I can buy more.

I know the sub-55 grain bullets are going to be iffy, but why not see what they do.

I plan to use a Lead Sled to help with consistency so as to test the rifle/ammo combo, not my shooting skills. BTW, this is at over a mile high elevation...

Anyone that is disappointed their ammo isn't on the list can send me a box

Any ideas or suggestions on procedure, etc?

 

[Beau]

Close your eyes, grab a couple boxes of ammo and go shoot a match.
You'll burn out a barrel before you will ever get valid results testing all of that.

If you are just starting out in position shooting, you are going to suck far worse than any of that ammo.

 

[urbanrifleman]

Close your eyes, grab a couple boxes of ammo and go shoot a match.
You'll burn out a barrel before you will ever get valid results testing all of that.

If you are just starting out in position shooting, you are going to suck far worse than any of that ammo.

This man is wissssseeee...

 

[NMcarbine]

Yes, starting out in position shooting, but I might as well find the best ammo for the various distances. According to a study I read recently, the optimum group size is 4. You see alot of 3 and 5 shot groups but according to the study the magic number is 4. Shooting 4X 20 types of ammo is equal to a match. Seems better to find what the barrel likes best for an equal number of shots.

http://www.the-long-family.com/group_size_analysis.htm

I goofed and listed some Penetrator and tracer ammo which I won't be testing at the City range. I have however ordered more varieties.

Am adding the following to the list:

Hornady Steel Match 55gr
Hornady Black 75gr
Norma TAC-223 55gr
Remington Premier Match 77 gr

Is the Remington being obsoleted? Found some through the distributor for .80/rd. Their 69 and 62 grain versions were also at a deal, but less of a deal so I didn't order them.

The club I am in has a monthly match and that was a week ago, so a month before the next one, however the week before that is their .22LR F-Class match I will be trying out a new rifle I built 3 years ago and never fired. So while testing the .223 ammo, I will be doing something similar with the .22LR.

Reading everyone else's tests shot at various distances, different barrels, different altitude, etc. are beneficial, but shooting next to the range I would compete at with the rifle I will be competing with will give me the best information for my rig.

Given the nut behind the trigger is probably the lowest common denominator, and I get it, but having the ammo my rifle likes best can't hurt.

Thanks!

 

[Beau]

Yes, starting out in position shooting, but I might as well find the best ammo for the various distances.

Given the nut behind the trigger is probably the lowest common denominator, and I get it, but having the ammo my rifle likes best can't hurt.

Well, let us know how it goes. I'll bet you won't even be able to keep your shots in the 6 MOA bull even after your third match.

If you want to test accuracy, test them all from Standing. At least then you'll get some practice. Otherwise, you are just wasting time & money.

 

[7x57]

If you can find the Norma TAC 55 on sale, which it had been recently for about 30 cents a round, I would stock up on that to get started. It will easily hold the SR-1 target (the 200 yd offhand and rapid sitting target). I have cleaned sitting at 200 with it with high X counts. Then you'll have nice Norma brass to load later when you get better. It is definitely adequate for 100-200 yd reduced.

 

[NMcarbine]

Well, let us know how it goes. I'll bet you won't even be able to keep your shots in the 6 MOA bull even after your third match.

If you want to test accuracy, test them all from Standing. At least then you'll get some practice. Otherwise, you are just wasting time & money.

I think you have high expectations for me I still don't think finding the best load for the gun is a waste of time or money. Because so many different people use so many different ammos for what seem to be similar rifles means there is some personality to each barrel that lends itself better to one load vs. another. Likewise, it seems a waste to shoot 77gr at 100yards...

Thanks

 

[NMcarbine]

If you can find the Norma TAC 55 on sale, which it had been recently for about 30 cents a round, I would stock up on that to get started. It will easily hold the SR-1 target (the 200 yd offhand and rapid sitting target). I have cleaned sitting at 200 with it with high X counts. Then you'll have nice Norma brass to load later when you get better. It is definitely adequate for 100-200 yd reduced.

After the reading I have done, that is one of the ammos I bought more of...more being only 10 boxes for now....was .32 a round. I read that is "strings", but was also told that the brass is good and that lowers the clost further. Thanks!

 

[Beau]

It really sounds like Benchrest is more your game.

 

[jepp2]

According to a study I read recently, the optimum group size is 4.

Not sure that has been my experience. I find that 3 shot groups tell me if a load will not group. Since I reload, I tend to follow the OCW methodology.

A factory ammo that you don't have (unless I overlooked it) is Federal Gold Medal Match GM223M with the 69 gr Sierra Matchking BTHP. A very good round for 7 & 8T barrels.

 

[NMcarbine]

It really sounds like Benchrest is more your game.

I chose service rifle thinking it was the poor man's way into high power or whatever...when I see some of the rigs people shoot with that I can't even afford the scope...

I haven't heard anyone suggest something to determine what the best ammo is without testing? The other suggestions like using the ammo for standing practice doesn't address the need to find what the rifle likes?

 

[urbanrifleman]

I chose service rifle thinking it was the poor man's way into high power or whatever...when I see some of the rigs people shoot with that I can't even afford the scope...

I haven't heard anyone suggest something to determine what the best ammo is without testing? The other suggestions like using the ammo for standing practice doesn't address the need to find what the rifle likes?

I would not worry about spending a lot of money on practice ammo for short range practice. Seriously. I used to shoot the same groups at 200 with my 55 Win SP practice blasting ammo that I did with 77 grain Sierras. And that was when I could shoot 1.5" groups prone from 200.

When I shoot the club match with my service rifle I use my plinking ammo. 24.5 grains of AA2015 and a Nosler Varmageddon set to 2.23". LC brass or WWC brass and CCI 450 primer. If you have decent barrel it will shoot 1/2 minute or less.

Do you want some load recommendations?

 

[Beau]

I chose service rifle thinking it was the poor man's way into high power or whatever...when I see some of the rigs people shoot with that I can't even afford the scope...

I believe you are correct, especially if you shoot iron sights, HP is about the cheapest shooting sport in town. I shiver when I think what a good 3 gunner has to spend!

I haven't heard anyone suggest something to determine what the best ammo is without testing? The other suggestions like using the ammo for standing practice doesn't address the need to find what the rifle likes?

There are some HP shooters that get caught up in that, and if you are up in the top 1 or 2% of HP shooters out there, it matters. You'll know when it matters because you'll have won or lost the NTI or a state championship by a point or a couple Xs. But if you are shooting scores under 98 or 99%, you are wasting your time. I haven't tested loads like you are saying in at least a decade. My testing consists of copying what someone else is shooting and making sure it doesn't blow primers. I'm shooting mixed brass that is 20 years old and I have to shake the cases to make sure the primers don't fall out.

In spite of all that, I'm shooting the best scores of my life, about 97%.

Highpower is a game of skill, not a game of equipment. The 10 ring @ 200 is 3 1/2 MOA. At 300, it's 2 1/3 MOA. The 10 ring @ 600 is 2 MOA. 2 MOA ammo will theoretically shoot a perfect score.

Darn near any match bullet in any case, with any powder and any primer will shoot much better than 2 MOA. It's up to you to learn to hold it.

Good luck & don't be discouraged. Everybody loves things like F-Class because it's much harder to completely miss the target. You are gonna suck & it's going to be humbling, but stick to it and when you retire from HP you can take up F-Class.

 

[pirate ammo]

I may be wrong,,but this sounds like chicken squat,,looking for FREE ammo,,look at the start..Capt. Dan

 

[pirate ammo]

you mentioned NM trigger ,but not the bolt carrier,very important

 

[swehrman]

you mentioned NM trigger ,but not the bolt carrier,very important

Am I misunderstanding what you're trying to state? It reads like you think the bolt carrier is very important for someone just starting out in XTC that's shooting 100 yard reduced targets.

Please explain it to me.

-- Scott

 

[pirate ammo]

Am I misunderstanding what you're trying to state? It reads like you think the bolt carrier is very important for someone just starting out in XTC that's shooting 100 yard reduced targets.

Please explain it to me.

-- Scott

just my way of thinking,,if your going to spend the time building up a rifle why not get the better parts,you might start out farther at a later date.NM bolt carriers are made better.If you build
your F-class with a savage action do you use their bolt system,or,a better one.If I'm wrong I will take every word back in public.

 

[swehrman]

just my way of thinking,,if your going to spend the time building up a rifle why not get the better parts,you might start out farther at a later date.NM bolt carriers are made better.If you build
your F-class with a savage action do you use their bolt system,or,a better one.If I'm wrong I will take every word back in public.

I'll give you one thing about NM bolt carriers, they're shiny, and who doesn't like shiny? Sometimes they're a little heavier which can allow you to shoot a hotter load. Do they make a difference in XTC matches? The answer is no.

I don’t know Beau, but his advice is spot on. I know that it's difficult for those starting out in XTC to not get all wrapped up in load development, especially if one is an avid follower of this forum. XTC is not benchrest or f-class, and does not require the same amount of accuracy to be competitive. The load development needed to be competitive has already been done 100 times over by shooters that came before us. Pick one of the established loads and go practice .

My advice to the original poster is to find three or four of the factory loads that are within your budget and easily available. Shoot 10 shot strings from a rest at three or four SR1 targets. Find the ammo that shoots the smallest group, and then take that same ammo and shoot 10 shots from the prone position and in a sling. When you discover that your prone target group is larger than the target you shot from the bench you'll know that it's your skill that is holding you back and not the ammunition.

-- Scott

 

[NMcarbine]

you mentioned NM trigger ,but not the bolt carrier,very important

The BCG is what came with the RRA Upper... Chromed... I did nothing to alter the upper, just the trigger in the lower.

If you check out FUNshootVideo, the guy shims the barrel, checks bolt face angle, gain twist, 90gr Berger, etc...every time I watch one of his videos, I can't believe he will come up with something else to "fix".

I had almost all of the types of ammo I am going to test and a lot of the ones I have added are because they were recommended. I don't know how much different it makes, but it someone else's barrel is shorter or longer, different twist rate, etc. etc., can I assume their best load is best for me? Anyway, I have the ammo, it is begging to be shot, why not do my own test..nothing to lose...

I bought the reloading equipment, but not the powder, primers, or bullets. Building up my brass supply.

At the last match, there were 6 shooters. Armscor, Creedmor, Norma TAC-223, some handloads, and maybe I saw some Fiocchi. I talked to the league directory and he said the best shooter they had shot 52gr Hornady. The guy shooting Creedmor is a master and the guy shooting Armscor is an expert.

 

[Beau]

You are going to end up with a bunch of partial boxes, each insufficient for a match. That and a bunch of mixed brass.