Actual gunsmiths...?

[Mauser06]

I know there are a few on here.


I still have like 18 years till retirement. 13 if wanted to go early.


Gunsmithing has always been on my list. I love tinkering. I love building. I love wood and metal work.


I already build custom flintlock Longrifles. My last was built from a plank of wood. Rough sand castings...made the side plate, sights, etc. All inletting done by hand. I'm no Allen Martin...but I'm learning.


I don't know how "actual" gunsmithing schools go...or if that's even a thing?

I like to mix it up. From handmade flintlocks to modern precision rifles to ARs etc.


I could see myself doing general gunsmithing work...but building customs and such as well.


No idea where to start. Maybe it's something I can start working towards now?


Figured I'd start seeking some guidance. I know...lots of hard work and time and you aren't getting rich. Wouldn't be so much as an income source as it would be something to keep me busy and fund my hobbies.

 

[MatthewsCarbineCo]

How much money are you willing to spend on machine tools and tooling?

How much time are you willing to invest learning to use those machine tools to be competent with them?
13 years fulltime years is close to enough..
Formal gunsmith schools programs run 1 to 2 years as a fulltime student for the college based schools.
Do not waste your money on correspondence type schools as hands on instruction is more condusive to learning..

People will wear your last nerve out over old guns that have sentimental value that when bought by their relatives new were nothing more than disposable or "Saturday night special" type guns or that even quality built firearms are tools and at some point old worn out tools must not be used any longer.
Most people now do not value a craftsmans time and do not care that a correctly done job takes time.
Maybe 30 years doing it and aquiring all the machine tools, hand tools and jigs and fixtures will jade a person slightly.
So best advice is to accomplish something in the shooting world, come up with a gadget that can be attributed towards your accomplishment and specialize in that one thing...

 

[msalm]

I could have written much of what you did. My plan was minorly different, accrue all the tools while still working, read anything and everything, work on whatever that suits me and hang out my shingle when retired and ready. Life changes things, gets busy. I had my ffl and did Gunsmithing for 10 years or so. Never advertised but always had work building precision rifles. From AR’s (I turned the blanks from custom blanks) to hunting, and target rifles. Always had enough work for my spare time and I did finance a lot of great toys to experiment with. I’d say start now and do whatever you want. Don’t be afraid to turn down work and just take in whatever you’re interested in. That may change from a custom flintlock to some tricky bit of making a gas operated 10mm auto...that was a fun one and feeding was troublesome.

Just be honest about what customers expectations should be and look at the NRA summer courses to learn specific topics you’re interested in. I took rifle rebarreling at MSC years ago and also local Tech school machine shop to learn the use of lathe and mill. I’m sure you do, but look for all the old gunsmith books you can, there’s a lot of them out there.

I certainly wouldn’t discourage what you want to do. I still enjoy it, have a shop full of tools and gun stuff and treat it as more of a hobby anymore as family and work needs more of my time.

 

[Will Henry]

I was fortunate to be taught by mentors 45 years ago and made a living at it for many years. I also worked as a journeyman machinist for many years. To paraphrase Lucian Cary, being a good gunsmith is simply a matter of knowing what good work is and being willing to take the pains to do it. WH

 

[Pawnee Bill]

Gunsmithing is a broad category. If you hang out your "Gumsmith" shingle, then you need to be prepared to work on anything that comes in the door. If you specialize in just building custom guns, you have a lot of competition and it takes a lot of time to build up a reputation & proving your custom guns will shoot to the customers expectation. Either way you go you are going to need a lot of tooling, including a good lathe, milling machine, etc., not to mention the skills needed to operate them. A good gunsmith to me is about 80% machinist and 20% mechanic, in that you have to have the mechanical skills to look at something that isn't working right and figure out how to fix it. Good Luck in your quest.

 

[shortgrass]

Yesterday, as a client was in my shop to pick-up a re-barrel & glass bedding job I had done for him, he announced that "he wanted to become a gunsmith, too". I think I hear that from every fifth or sixth client that I do work for. I just wish 'um good luck! Just like any other endeavor that you under take, that will require such an outlay of time and money, you must gain personal satisfaction, not just recover what you have spent and hopefully profit. As has been mentioned, only a very few are willing to pay for true craftsmanship.

 

[Mauser06]

Thanx all!!


Exactly the stuff I was looking for!


I am turning 34 soon enough. I have been working since 15. All jobs dealing with people in some fashion or another. I definitely GET that aspect. Not always roses and sunshine.


I don't expect to get rich. Basically supplement my retirement and fund my toys and adventures.

I'd definitely have to be honest with my customers. In that, it wouldn't be a full time round the clock daily thing. You wanna wait till the night before deer season to get your broken rifle fixed....sorry fella you called the wrong guy.


I've always had dreams of owning a small outdoor type shop. Maybe some bait..some used guns..hand made turkey calls made by me and such. Me working on something in the back and a neighbor kid working the front.


I never knew how to go about the gunsmithing training. Id assume training under an experienced Smith is probably best. Like building flintlocks, I didn't have that luxury. I made some mistakes and learned from them.


Who knows what's in store for me....and the gun world..in the next 13-18 years. I like looking ahead and paving my way to get there. If there are steps I can start taking to help me in the future, I do it. It's gotten me this far and a job where I can have a full retirement at 52yo.

 

[shortgrass]

The drawback of training under 1 'smith is you learn only his way. At the gunsmithing schools there are 3-4 'smiths as instructors, and as much, you might learn 3-4 ways of 'skinning the cat'. I've heard it said many times, "You don't know what it is that you don't know".

 

[Ggmac]

Youll make more as a plumber but . In all seriousness, insurance , liabilities, taxes , rules and dont forget tooling , its a boring job . Itll change your look on the shooting public . It did mine . Its fine as a hobby , sort of , but then you can pick and choose your jobs . In order to keep the lights on , plan on cleaning alot of guns , changing scopes and bases , stocks , recoil pads , some barrel work ( doesnt really pay unless you back a shooter or shooters and they are winning ) threading for brakes , recrowning , etc . Building custom rifles would require a following , it can be done , Alex has done an amazing job . Its not that easy , oh I almost forgot , its best to have your own range . It doesnt make sense to be trying to figure out a 4 and one hole problem when you have to drive 20-30 miles to shoot it .

 

[Spotshooter]

Getting setup to do barrels, and milling will run you just north of 30K if you want quality gear and don’t buy used.
Insurance is 1.2k a year.

Buying Reamers & range rods and bushings will kill any profits for the first couple to 5 years.
After that your material costs are fairly low, and you can cover you costs and start paying things off.

I retired from my corporate job and do it because I love accurate shooting rifles, and I love helping people get the most out of what they have. When I first started doing work, it was mostly friends so the friends and family discount also kills you a bit to in terms of making any money in the first few years.

Of course you always find out you need more gear later that costs you even more.

In general try to find what you are most interested in and see if you can find a master gunsmith teaching a class or classes on it. That’s what I did.

 

[shortgrass]

Youll make more as a plumber but . In all seriousness, insurance , liabilities, taxes , rules and dont forget tooling , its a boring job . Itll change your look on the shooting public . It did mine . Its fine as a hobby , sort of , but then you can pick and choose your jobs . In order to keep the lights on , plan on cleaning alot of guns , changing scopes and bases , stocks , recoil pads , some barrel work ( doesnt really pay unless you back a shooter or shooters and they are winning ) threading for brakes , recrowning , etc . Building custom rifles would require a following , it can be done , Alex has done an amazing job . Its not that easy , oh I almost forgot , its best to have your own range . It doesnt make sense to be trying to figure out a 4 and one hole problem when you have to drive 20-30 miles to shoot it .

"It'll change your look on the shooting public". Now there's an under statement.........

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Build some rifles like william gusler with all your hand built tools and have fun. If you make em right youll sell every one you make before its done

 

[Mauser06]

Don't have better pics of that rifle uploaded. That's #3. My first from a plank of wood...those pics are pretty bad...



That's how it started...I'm now Gussler or Allen Martin etc....but, I have built 3 functional rifles and that last one isn't horrible. I'm my own worst critic...but I think you have to be able to see your flaws to improve.


Lots of good information provided. I appreciate it!


Who knows what 13 or 18 years has in store for me....or the gun world.


I realized there's be overhead. Licenses...insurance... equipment costs. You'd almost have to take in the grunt work to keep the bills paid... cleaning neglected guns..scopes and bore sighting etc etc.

As far as a range, I've already realized what a benefit that'd be to a gunsmith. I like to test fire my flintlocks a few times as I build them to ensure the function and to bend the barrel to zero it. Ya...I'm not kidding. Many of us center up the sights and literally bend the barrel for the windage. Elevation is done by filing the front sight. But if this too far off, I bend elevation. I like a nice low front sight.

So it's a pain to go-to the range... despite it being 2-3 miles away. It'd be nice to step outside and be able to shoot ..go back inside and fix whatever needs fixin.


I plan to move once more to a place with enough land to shoot. Need a few more years yet though.


Maybe my thoughts will change...or maybe I will see it through. Time will tell.

I do all my own basic work. Scopes, bedding, swapping various parts and such. I'd love to be able to chamber my own barrels. Slowly gathering tools...now that I have a rifle capable of barrel swaps, I will have a barrel vise and action wrench soon. I just enjoy being able to do stuff myself. Doing it when I want. How I want.


I fully understand throwing the public into the mix is a whole new ball game. Like I said, I've been in the people business for 18 years already. Another 18 and I will definitely have had enough lol. Definitely something to think about heavily.


I know when I retire I don't wanna be tied to someones time clock. I see guys retire and within a year or 2 they have another actual job of some sort. Usually not for the money. Mostly for something to keep them busy. But then they are at the mercy of their employer. If the fish are biting, they usually can't just not go to work. Working for myself in some fashion, I could.

 

[Mauser06]

Here's a couple pics of #2 I took this spring gobbler season.







Time consuming tedious hand work for the most part. But I find it very enjoyable.

 

[hpshooter]

"Time consuming tedious hand work for the most part. But I find it very enjoyable."

Very nice work. I think you have found your niche, you are well on your way to producing very high quality muzzle loading rifles IMHO.

Thank you for sharing the pictures.

 

[AckleymanII]

If you are planning on doing gunsmithing in your home, check with your home owner's insurance.

Gunsmithing business at your home may nullify your homeowners insurance claim if you ever file one, IF you have not made full disclosure of the property's use.

Home owner's insurance has to be notified that you are running a business out of your home, or they have a legal right to not pay a claim. Consider tree falling on your property, lighting strikes, water damage, tornado, hail damage to roof.

This is a huge can of worms that is absolutely no problem until you get in real trouble. Most of the major insurance companies will drop you like a hot potato if they find out you are doing gunsmithing at your home.

If there is an answer to this problem, I would appreciate all input.

 

[shortgrass]

^^^^^^^^ AckleymanIIs' post is the best reason to NOT run a gunsmithing business in your home.

 

[matthias]

You mentioned not being tied to someone's timeclock.

Every customer no matter how nice , patient, and understanding wants their gun fixed and or worked on first. Remember every customer thinks of you as working on their gun while you are working.

It is not their problem to understand your work flow only to expect work to be getting done at your shop.

Think long and hard about the scope of your skills and what you want to do. Repair of firearms is quicksand that will swallow you up if you can't say no. Old worn out 22lr rifles were my nemesis. Crappy poorly built guns are the ones that need the most attention and deserve it the least. Building firearms is a saturated market, but can be a great business once your reputation is established.

 

[wkdickinson]

You mentioned not being tied to someone's timeclock.

Every customer no matter how nice , patient, and understanding wants their gun fixed and or worked on first. Remember every customer thinks of you as working on their gun while you are working.

It is not their problem to understand your work flow only to expect work to be getting done at your shop.

Think long and hard about the scope of your skills and what you want to do. Repair of firearms is quicksand that will swallow you up if you can't say no. Old worn out 22lr rifles were my nemesis. Crappy poorly built guns are the ones that need the most attention and deserve it the least. Building firearms is a saturated market, but can be a great business once your reputation is established.

Like many craftsmen and/or people performing a service, gunsmiths can be their own worst enemy in this regard. When you tell a customer their project should be ready in 2 weeks and 2 months later they are still waiting, they have every right to loose their patience with you. Obviously, the smith put MANY projects in front of theirs, lied to them to start with or is a terrible judge of how long it takes to accomplish things - maybe all three or maybe they have the attitude "it will be done when it's done".

I know there are often extenuating circumstances (parts availability, broken tools, more wrong than initially thought...), but in those cases communication is the key, a phone call or email. Unfortunately, that seldom happens, the customer get pissed and the service provider think they are being unreasonable.

 

[okie]

If you are planning on doing gunsmithing in your home, check with your home owner's insurance.

Gunsmithing business at your home may nullify your homeowners insurance claim if you ever file one, IF you have not made full disclosure of the property's use.

Home owner's insurance has to be notified that you are running a business out of your home, or they have a legal right to not pay a claim. Consider tree falling on your property, lighting strikes, water damage, tornado, hail damage to roof.

This is a huge can of worms that is absolutely no problem until you get in real trouble. Most of the major insurance companies will drop you like a hot potato if they find out you are doing gunsmithing at your home.

If there is an answer to this problem, I would appreciate all input.

good to know