Accurate Powders?

[GAnderson]

Are the Accurate Powders made in the US or Belgium? Accurate is listed as a US Company but some information on their powders indicate it is made in Belgium. I have heard reports that the AA2520 was made in Belgium and then possibly was made in the US and the density had changed dramatically on the "US made" stuff...wondering if the AA2520 that is hitting the shelves now is Belgium or US made? Thanks

Gene

 

[chkunz]

Are the Accurate Powders made in the US or Belgium? Accurate is listed as a US Company but some information on their powders indicate it is made in Belgium. I have heard reports that the AA2520 was made in Belgium and then possibly was made in the US and the density had changed dramatically on the "US made" stuff...wondering if the AA2520 that is hitting the shelves now is Belgium or US made? Thanks

Gene

I posted this on a another thread, " am told that Accurate 2520 is now Match Rife of Lovex propellants made in the Czech Republic and bottled by Shooters World LLC. Can anyone verify this?"

 

[GAnderson]

chkunz, not sure I follow you...Accurate 2520 is in stock at some vendors now and it is still bottled/labeled as AA2520...and some descriptions say made in Belgium...nothing about it being called "Match Rifle"...or are you saying that AA2520 is now made by Match Rifle of Lovex? I used 2520 in some of my rifles and then it disappeared for a couple of years and is now showing up again...it doesn't stay in stock long and was wondering if someone that has purchased some in the last few weeks can determine if the container might say where it is being produced. Thanks

Gene

 

[Shynloco]

I posted this on a another thread, " am told that Accurate 2520 is now Match Rife of Lovex propellants made in the Czech Republic and bottled by Shooters World LLC. Can anyone verify this?"

Can't verify anything but noted that "Accurate Powders" website states they have NO connection to the company in the Czech Republic.

Alex

 

[JRS]

5744 - Canada
1680 - U.S.A.
LT30 - ?
LT32 - ?
2015 - Canada
2200 - ?
2230 - Belgium
2460 - U.S.A.
2495 - Canada
2520 - Belgium
2700 - U.S.A.
4064 - Canada
4350 - Canada
MagPro - U.S.A.

 

[Tuxedo007]

Are the Accurate Powders made in the US or Belgium? Accurate is listed as a US Company but some information on their powders indicate it is made in Belgium. I have heard reports that the AA2520 was made in Belgium and then possibly was made in the US and the density had changed dramatically on the "US made" stuff...wondering if the AA2520 that is hitting the shelves now is Belgium or US made? Thanks

Gene

Not trying to be smart, but if it really is important to you, I would suggest contacting the Manufacturer/Supplier...ie Accurate Arms! FWIW, a large percentage of the powders distributed here in the USA are produced by "offshore" manufacturers!

Tuxedo007

 

[JRS]

The Countries of manufacture are listed on the AA website.

 

[Win70]

I have a 10+ year old container of 2520, says made in Israel. A newer container says made in Belgium. I just got a new 8 lb container of 2520 and it says made in USA.

 

[Laurie]

Win 70, that Israeli made 2520 has to be really old - not plus 10, more like plus 20 years. It gained a fantastic short-term reputation for 308/168 in XTC with the M1A/M14, then when the word got around and people rushed out to buy 8lb tubs, they found it was no longer made by IDI, instead somebody else and it no longer worked nearly as well.

Explosia AS based in the Semtin area of the Czech Republic made most of the old (pre Western Powders) Accurate Arms ball powders including 2230 and 2520 plus one or two other non ball double-based types such as AA-5744. It also manufactured some single-based extruded numbers such as AA-2051 and AA-4350. In Europe Explosia powders are sold under the Lovex name and we still see them in the UK in rather limited quantities, both Ball types under Lovex DO.... or single-based extruded products under Lovex SO, SO62 being the AA-4064 of some years back and SO70 the old AA-4350.

When Western Powders in Montana bought out the former Accurate Arms powder company 10 or more years ago, it very quickly dropped all Explosia / Lovex powders and sourced similar grades from other manufacturers. Most Ramshot and AA ball powders are manufactured by PB Clermont in Belgium, a very long established powder manufacturer just along the road from the great gun manufacturing centre of Herstal where FN is based and its history started in blackpowder days. 30 or 40 years ago PB Clermont bought the right to make ball powders from the US Olin Corporation who held all the patents on its manufacturing processes and rebuilt its plant switching entirely to this type. It is recognized as a leader in its field up alongside Olin's / Winchester Western's modern successor, St. Marks Powder in Florida where ball powder originates. PB claims its ball powders are the cleanest and coolest burning of this type and are much less temperature affected than most such double-based ball numbers. I can't say if this is true, but the company is very successful in selling its powders around the world to companies which load military smallarms ammunition for governments. Today, it's a part of the French based Eurenco multinational explosives and propellants group.

 

[Laurie]

I have a 10+ year old container of 2520, says made in Israel. A newer container says made in Belgium. I just got a new 8 lb container of 2520 and it says made in USA.

'Made in the USA' almost certainly means by The St. Marks Powder Co. in FLA which makes all Winchester powders and also all Hodgdon's 'spherical' grades. I remember reading some months back that PB Clermont had some sort of major incident in its Belgian plant, major as in fire / explosion. So, it may be that Western Powders had to find a new supplier temporarily.

 

[JRS]

'Made in the USA' almost certainly means by The St. Marks Powder Co. in FLA which makes all Winchester powders and also all Hodgdon's 'spherical' grades. I remember reading some months back that PB Clermont had some sort of major incident in its Belgian plant, major as in fire / explosion. So, it may be that Western Powders had to find a new supplier temporarily.

It can be purchased in bulk, repackaged in the U.S. and labeled "made in the U.S.A.".

 

[flatlander]

Laurie - Good information. I bought some of the old 2520 long ago - from Dexter Automotive IIRC, which has long since been known as Powder Valley. It was very good in 223 & 308, but when my original supply was exhausted, and I bought some of the newer 2520, I found the same loads as before produced 200+fps less velocity, and weren't as accurate.

At some point along the way, Accurate powders were produced by IMI, up until they supposedly had a rather major 'incident' (fire/explosion).

Western Powder imported a lot of surplus Czech powder, including Data 85 & 86 - 85 being a ball type very similar to Ramshot Hunter, while 86 in single-base that falls between 4350 & 4831 in burn rate. SRB 118 was also good stuff, though I don't recall where it originated. I stopped buying Accurate's extruded powders when I found "Made in China" on the labels; none of that stuff seemed to have flash inhibitors in the list of ingredients, and produced substantial muzzle flash - visible in broad daylight.

 

[GAnderson]

I have a 10+ year old container of 2520, says made in Israel. A newer container says made in Belgium. I just got a new 8 lb container of 2520 and it says made in USA.

Win70, that is what I was trying to determine in my original post...whether or not today's new AA2520 is still being made in Belgium or not. I knew that their website still said it was made in Belgium AND a phone call to them was "no changes in powders", but often times things change and websites are not updated and company personnel don't want to reveal any changes...that is why I was trying to determine if anyone had recently purchased any and what it said on the container. My original post/question was put out there to confirm what a person told me...I had a person tell me that with a newer jug of 2520 that they could not get the same powder charge weight of 2520 in a particular cartridge as they could before with the Belgium made 2520 powder and that the newer 2520 powder was from the USA...or at least the container was marked "made in USA" just as you stated. So given all of this information, it does seem to indicate that today's AA2520 is probably different than the previously made AA2520. I wanted to try to clarify this before buying an 8# jug of the recent stock that is showing up periodically. Thanks for all the replies.

Gene

 

[amlevin]

none of that stuff seemed to have flash inhibitors in the list of ingredients, and produced substantial muzzle flash - visible in broad daylight.

Unless you are Military or a Hunter, how is that a problem? Powder may well burn cleaner than those with flash inhibitors. Besides, a big flash can be a lot of fun. Distract your fellow competitors

 

[chkunz]

chkunz, not sure I follow you...Accurate 2520 is in stock at some vendors now and it is still bottled/labeled as AA2520...and some descriptions say made in Belgium...nothing about it being called "Match Rifle"...or are you saying that AA2520 is now made by Match Rifle of Lovex? I used 2520 in some of my rifles and then it disappeared for a couple of years and is now showing up again...it doesn't stay in stock long and was wondering if someone that has purchased some in the last few weeks can determine if the container might say where it is being produced. Thanks

Gene

That was what I was told but after more research the information was not correct. It appears that, as you say, Accurate Arms still sells 2520 and it is still available but somewhat hard to find especially in the 8 lb container. Match Rifle DO73-06 says on the container that it is made in Czech Republic , bottled by Shooters World LLC and it is sold by Lovex and they say it is "similar" to AA2520 and Reloader 15. What I wanted to know was it the Match Rifle the same or did I need to hold out for the AA2520. The history gets somewhat complicated and either way it looks like the best approach is to buy as much as you can at one time and not expect the next buy to be the "same". ARGGGG!

 

[Laurie]

chkunz, that'll be the Explosia manufactured stuff that used to be sold as Accurate Arms powders pre the Western Powders takeover of the old Accurate company and Western's termination of the Explosia supply arrangement.

In Europe, this group of spherical powders with similar burning speeds are labelled and sold as Lovex DO73.4 (AA-2230 as used to be); DO73.5 (formerly AA-2460); and DO73.6 (the older 2520) and described as 'similar to' those powders. They're NOT the same thing as today's Belgian manufactured Accurate powders of those names.

Understandably, Western Powders has been rather upset by this and has been warning European users of these (and other) Lovex grades NOT to use the Ramshot / Accurate loading data.

Explosia A.S. publishes Lovex powder data:

http://wapenkamer.nl/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/LOVEX_Reloading-Guide_2015.pdf

As Lovex DO73.6 is now being sold in the USA with the tag that it's 'similar to Accurate 2520' I'd imagine Western is hopping mad. Whether it can take any action to stop this description I'd not know though.

Personally I got very high MVs and some good results with these powders in appropriate applications when they were sold here in the UK as 'Accurate' and they're completely unchanged in their subsequent renamed Lovex guise. They are very dirty though IMO and I find the Belgium manufactured Ramshot powders better. (We don't get the 'new' Accurate powders in Europe, but we do have an excellent Europe-only Ramshot grade called 'Wild Boar' which some people reckon is what's sold by Western in the US as the 'new' Accurate 2520. If it's not the same thing, it's certainly not too different.)

 

[M-61]

I had emailed Accurate powders a while back regarding a post on this site that 1lb was NOT 1lb., in Accurate containers. (rather 12oz.) Got an immediate response :

"It’s no problem at all. It is kind of a disturbing allegation. We don’t mark our powders with AA, not since we purchased Accurate in 2004, maybe he has old stuff, I’m just guessing, but I doubt the original company failed to provide a pound of powder in a pound canister, either. We are a very small company and put a lot of stock in our promises.


Take care, and thanks for asking,

Rob

The above was followed by them with a phone call to me. "Rob" was calling from Montana.
My point is a phone call could get the answers. (406-234-0430)

The email and response is from January 2016. Concerned and nice people to deal with, and answered my own question regarding "AA" vs "A" labeling.

 

[PVI]

Accurate 2520 is now made in Belgium. Over the past 25 years Accurate powders have been sourced out of several countries. I believe they have been sourced from Israel, South Africa, Czech Republic, Spain, USA, Canada and Belgium. I'm not sure when 2520 began being sourced out of Belgium but I can confirm that is where it is currently being sourced. From my understanding Western feels very good about their relationships, quality and consistency of the powder they receive from their current sources and do not anticipate any changes. The current powders being offered by Shooters World are being sourced out of the Czech Republic. I hope this helps.
Bryan

 

[GAnderson]

Accurate 2520 is now made in Belgium. Over the past 25 years Accurate powders have been sourced out of several countries. I believe they have been sourced from Israel, South Africa, Czech Republic, Spain, USA, Canada and Belgium. I'm not sure when 2520 began being sourced out of Belgium but I can confirm that is where it is currently being sourced. From my understanding Western feels very good about their relationships, quality and consistency of the powder they receive from their current sources and do not anticipate any changes. The current powders being offered by Shooters World are being sourced out of the Czech Republic. I hope this helps.
Bryan

A friend just purchased(today) an 8# jug of 2520 and it is marked "Made in USA"...also, another phone call was made to Accurate and this is from the horses mouth...was told that: 1)It is made here in the USA 2)There was no change in the powder from previous years but that you could expect lot to lot differences the same as any other powder. So, who do we believe given the various responses so far? Anyway...going to test the new powder against previous load data to determine if differences show up in volume/density and accuracy...we've probably beat this horse to death enough. Thanks to all for the replies.