accuracy at different ranges

[bgblue1978]

I recently started reloading for my marlin 30-30 with leupold fixed 2x scope. i loaded test groups of hornady ftx bullets and leverevolution powder from 34g to 35.5g in .3 increments. i shot those loads round robin at 50 yards and got several groups around 1". i picked one that looked like a nice group the the charges above and belowe were similar size and similar poi. i loaded up 10 of those and went back to the range another day to verify what i expected to be a good enough load for this rifle. when i shot them at 100yards the 3 shot groups were all over 3 inches. all shots gave nice round holes in paper. Does this mean that...
1. Not a good load start over (where woukd you go next?)
2. Im not a good shooter (i have sevral iron sights rifles that i shoot much better than 3moa so i think im capable of shooting better than that with the 2x)
3. Thats as good as i can expect with the 30-30. Just be happy and use the gun for its intended purpose.

I guess what im asking is, so far in my reloading everything has been pretty consisntent at different ranges. if my 308 shoots .8 inches at 100 it usually shoots under 2in at 200. why would these loads shoot 1"at 50 and then 3-5" groups at 100?

 

[Bbear]

Just my thoughts, take them for what they're worth.
1. Try out your loads at the 100 yard line. 3-shot or 5-shot groups. They'll tell a much better story on the accuracy of a given loading.
2. Try and keep the barrel cool or at least close to the same temperature each time you start the round-robin effort. I will usually take a couple of rifles, one is nearly always a 22 LR, just to work on my form and trigger pull while waiting for a barrel to cool down.
3. If you can, shoot over/through a chronograph(preferably without hitting the chronograph ) . There is a lot of good information that you can glean from the results.
4. Take notes of each time you shoot - temperature, humidity, wind direction/speed all of those will have some effect on your shots.

As you have found out, you can find a 'good' load at a shorter range that doesn't hold up at the longer ranges. If you can find a good enough (for you) group at 100, you should have an adequate load for the shorter ranges. And, one you DO find a load, practice with it out to beyond your expected hunting ranges. ie. if your 'average' shot is 75 yards, practice and learn where the bullet impacts at 200 or 150 - just in case that once in a lifetime deer/elk whatever walks out and gives you a shot at that range.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Try a bigger scope. I dont think your crosshairs will let you shoot any smaller and it may cause you to chase your tail. Borrow a scope if you have to. Another thing to do is go buy a box of leverevolutions and see what they do because they work better than that for me. Also clean the barrel real good

 

[Rsadams]

+1 on a higher magnification scope , cleaning the barrel real good. Plus shooting a box of factory over a crono for some base readings... If your going to reload you need a cronograph if you don't have one...

 

[retired]

yep a 2x scope is not a TARGET scope.
look at a variable...3-12x, 4-16x.
use the top end for load work, and the bottom end for hunting.
skip "round robin".. it just allows different conditions at each shot which pretty much
invalidates the test.
try 3 shot groups shot all at once.
get a solid rest front and rear, keep the cross hairs square on the target.
push the trigger to the rear, do not jerk it.
test against a known load..but a box of levervolution loaded ammo

 

[Shaggy357]

A higher magnification will help your shooting at long range, however, there are a lot of factors that could increase the size of your group. With your 2x scope, what was your sight picture looking like on your target at 50? How did that sight picture compare to the sight picture you were looking at further out at 100? If you lose sight of your aim point due to the thickness of your crosshairs, you are not going to shoot as well. I have several guns with the Leupold 2x fixed sight scopes. When target sighting, I ensure I have an aim point that I can hold knowing the limitations I have with my scope. If you can hold a 2" dot at 50, you may need a 4" dot, or even bigger, at 100 to maintain a good hold.

The 30-30 can be a fickle round. What I mean by this, one load may shoot really good in a Model 94 Winchester, but not shoot well in the Marlin, the Thompson Center Contender, nor the Savage bolt action. I have more 30-30s than I care to admit, but none of them shoot the same performance load. Even with factory loads, they each have their favorite.

Bullet design, throat length, seating depth, and rifling have a lot to do with the accuracy of your load. Your rifle may like a long ogive flat point bullet better than a stubby round nose bullet, or vice versa. Some guns like the 150s and not the 170s.

The best way to really see if your gun likes your load is to get a target that you can hold a good sight picture on at 100 yards plus. Learn to shoot that 2x scope at 100 on a target that gives you a perfect sight picture. Once you have that, test your loads at 100 yards.

I hope this helps

 

[K22]

If you goal is small groups shot from the bench get a higher magnification scope and a cartridge that lends itself to target shooting. The 30 30 is not that cartridge.

The 30 30 shines as a deep woods deer hunting cartridge. The light weight carbines also make them a joy to carry and handle. A 2X scope is a significant improvement over open sights and is plenty of magnification for hunting deer in this caliber.

If you can keep 5 shots in a 4" circle at 100 yards you're good to go for deer hunting in this caliber. There's nothing wrong with a 2X scope for the 30 30 since this is basically a 150 yard big game cartridge. The 2X is great for deep woods hunting where shots are typically under 100 yards. The quick target acquisition makes the 2X ideal in the deep woods.

My father took 18 bucks and a bunch of does with an open sighted 30 30 with factory ammo. Of course he was an exceptional hunter and hunted in the big woods of north central PA.

 

[Bart B.]

If you goal is small groups shot from the bench get a higher magnification scope and a cartridge that lends itself to target shooting. The 30 30 is not that cartridge.

It is in the right rifle. Can't think of anything about it preventing it from shooting 1/3rd MOA at 100 yards.

 

[Jennb]

Draw an aiming point on your target and adjust your scope so that your aiming point and impact point are different. This way your aiming is always the same and bullet holes will not distort that.

 

[dmoran]

It is in the right rifle. Can't think of anything about it preventing it from shooting 1/3rd MOA at 100 yards.

Now that's funny... I don't care who you are !.!

 

[ireload2]

Have you examined your Marlin bore for tool marks and surface texture compared to a high quality barrel?
I have several Marlins that have lots of tools marks and the internal finish resembles a rat tail file. These bores need 200 to 300 rounds sometimes to iron out the tool marks. In addition Marlins often have a tight spot in the bore under the roll marking.
These rifles are also sensitive to how they are held. Place your left hand under the forend and on top of the rest. This will help you monitor how hard you are leaning on the butt with your face. You should not use any more face pressure than shooting offhand in your hunting mode.

 

[CaptainMal]

I have three Marlin 30-30's up to a 24" rifle version. Settled on 35.0 grs and the powder and bullet you use. Each of them has benefitted from modifications. Barrel bands notched out for no contact. Forends also notched so only screws actually touch the barrels. Tang stocks opened and bedded with Devcon or J.B. Weld. Two have 2-7 Burris Ballistic Plex reticle scopes in figure 8 mounts so I can use iron sights also. One uses a 1.5-5X Leupold. All shoot under 2 MOA from cold clean. All took lots of cleaning and bore paste to get the barrels working properly.

My 24" one has hit gongs out to 600 yards repeatedly. Even the short ones hit to 300 yards using the drop lines in the reticles. Only one, the 24" ballard rifling rifle, has done MOA groups with any consistency. All have made deer kills in excess of 200 yards.

I think you are right on for components. You can tweak the load to your particular rifle since you are only using one rifle. What you need to do is "tune" the rifles by checking what is touching the barrels and getting that consistent. I also did work on all my triggers so they are in the 3-4 lb. range. Oh - yes - a little more scope power would help with more repeatable sight precision.

 

[bgblue1978]

Thanks for all of the replies. im not interested in putting a bigger scope on it and i know that it isnt intended to be a target rifle. i can shoot my iron sights m1a and ar so i dont think the 2x is holding me back. but i do intend to hunt within 100 yards so i would like to be comfortable with the load out to at least 100 if not a bit more.

Thats a great point about choosing the right target or point if aim on the target. i might try again with different sized dots.

I shot factory leverevolution ammo at 50 and it shot alright but most of my test loads shot better groups at 50.

As for the upgrade suggestions, yes it could use some trigger work and a few of the tips/tricks with the bands but for the intended use i dont want to spend a bunch of money on the rifle. its a shoot a few deer or hogs a couple times a year rifle.

My goal was to shoot under 2" at 100 so when it shot under 1 at 50 i thought i was good to go. guess i just need more testing to figure out why it didnt scale up and see if there is anither load that shoots well of if i was just having a good day/bad day as a shooter.

 

[chop house]

These rifles are also sensitive to how they are held. Place your left hand under the forend and on top of the rest.

agreed. i have struggled with several short light carbines (like handi rifles) and they definitely string vertical, from rebounding off the rest i presume. Can not shoot free recoil, for sure. not going to use it like that when hunting anyway.