AccuBond failure.

[swampshooter]

I've shot three elk with Nosler AccuBonds and have not received anywhere near straight line penetration. The first two were recovered in the far side rump after hitting in the chest cavity, almost perfectly broadside shot presentation. I'd estimate that there was a 60* deflection after impact, only rib bone was struck. The range on these shots was just over 300 yds.

On the last elk I hit too far back on a running broadside shot at about 100 yds. The bullet hit in the flank and turned 90* and was recovered next to the lung. No bone was struck at all yet that bullet still made a 90* turn after impact.
Rifle is a Rem. 700, 7mm Rem. Mag., Load is a 160 Nosler AccuBond at 3,000 fps.

My question is ; Is anybody else having these experiences? I've had bullet deflection before but never have I encountered it when no bone was struck. I'm wondering if the plastic tip is causing this?

 

[jbarnwell]

I don't know about killing elk with them, but I have shot numerous whitetails with them. I use the 140 grain 7mm in the 280 Ackley and 7mm-08 Ackley and have had fantastic results, usually with complete pass throughs, but I can't remember having any of the deflection problems you are describing. Have also used the 140 grain in a 6.5-06 Ackley, these were all pass through shots with no deflection. One of the deer killed with this load was a straight on chest to rump shot, with complete penetration.

I don't know what to tell you, unless you just got a bad lot?? I have been well pleased with them. I have been running them as slow as 2950 fps to as high as 3150 fps in the 280 Ackley and the shots have been at all kinds of angles.

 

[P1ZombieKiller]

In shot an elk 2 yrs ago with my 160 Accubond in a 7mm mag at 325 yards and it was a complete pass through. Drop him dead in his tracks. Its the only gun I shoot Accubonds in, but that is just because all my other hunting rifles were load developed before I found out about the Accubonds. I would not hesitate to shoot them in any of my other hunting guns for any north American animal.

 

[XTR]

I don't know what your twist rate is, I don't have experience with that bullet in a 7mmRM, and there is probably another explanation but it sounds very much like you are at the very edge of stability and the bullet is tumbling on impact.

 

[rwk]

Swampshooter, are you complaining that you got you elk, the bullet harvested your elk job done!

 

[wapiti25]

congradulations on killing your elk, second for looking how the bullet performed. I think you may be on the edge for being stable. I shot with a guy that bought a new 40X in 7mm Rem Mag and he was shooting the 168 Sierras at 600 yds. He had key holes some of the time so he sent the rifle to Rem. and they put a new barrel in it.

 

[swampshooter]

RWK, Yes, I am complaining. I desire straight line penetration, or close to it. When I hit an elk in the chest broadside and the bullet winds up in a back ham tearing up sirloins, and tearing up the tenderloins and a portion of the backstrap on the way. Yes, I am definitely complaining. Meat damage should have been restricted to a couple of ribs and lung tissue which I don't eat anyway. I'm not hunting for horns. I'm a meat hunter. There is no more space on my walls for horns or trophies. I've already had to take five heads to the LGS because I don't have room for them on my walls.

Wapiti, This rifle is a re-barreled 7mm Rem Mag. Re-barreled with a factory Rem. barrel. I in 9.5 twist. That should be plenty fast enough to stabilize 160 gr. bullet. You might be onto something though. The problem might be the length of the bullet causing an instability factor, with a small boattail and a plastic tip it is definitely longer than most 160's. I remember talking to Bill Steigers many years ago and he told me that he twists his barrels fast to the point of losing velocity and a little bit of accuracy in order to achieve straight line penetration with his Bitterroot Bonded Core Bullets, which were the first ever bonded bullet on the market. I'm going to shoot the Speer 160 gr. Grand Slam next year, a much shorter bullet than the AccuBond. It doesn't have as good a BC but I'm not a long range shooter of animals, just targets at long range for me. I'll post the results of next years hunt in case this stuff interests anybody besides me.

 

[2506]

The only Accubonds that I shoot are the .264 130 gr out of my 264 Win mag 9 twist 27 3/4" barrel. The only animals that I have shot are deer. I have shot a dozen of so with this bullet leaving the muzzle at average 3350 fps from as close as 50 yards to right at 400 yards and all but one have been straight line through and through. Most through both shoulders. The only bullet I did not have exit was one on a buck at 111 yards. Buck was facing me with a slight left shoulder angle to me. I placed the bullet on the edge of the left shoulder. It smashed the scapula took out the lungs and while cutting up the hams I found the bullet against the smashed ball socket of the right ham. Bullet was a text book mushroom and weight was 87 grs. It does not get much better than that.

 

[XTR]

It just struck me that the kind of non-linear penetration you got sounds a lot like a ballistics article I read yrs ago on the 5.56 and the Russian 5.45 and how fast the bullets rolled over on penetration and what effects that performance. (desirable for the military) It may just be that the 160 is long enough with the weight far enough aft that it turns over very fast on impact.

 

[wboggs]

To swampshooter The Nosler Part. is shorter than the AB and will give you good penetration.

 

[BigDMT]

... I think you may be on the edge for being stable...

+1 Especially if you are not pushing the bullets very fast

Try to find a load that gives higher speeds for increased RPM and see what happens. Instability should be evident on paper. If the carbon hole is not "near" perfectly round as measured with a caliper, you might have an issue.

 

[swampshooter]

I'm getting close to 3,000 fps out of my loads. A little more R-22 than the some books say, and I add a little more to make up for the cold weather during the late season hunt. Groups are less than moa and all holes are perfectly round. The bullet is stable in flight, but I'm thinking like Wapiti, that it is losing its stability on impact. The last bullet didn't penetrate over 3" and then did an almost 90* left turn. No bone involved either, nothing but soft flesh.

The Partition is a good bullet but not the answer for what I want. I'll get a larger wound channel out of the Grand Slam, although a little bit less penetration, and I think it will shoot good in my rifle. My rifle seems to shoot any 160 gr. bullet into an inch or less. I only have 100, 160 gr. Grand Slams though and have about 500, 160 Partitions on hand. So we'll see, I just might use a Sierra, Hornady or Speer Hot-Core. I'm certain either bullet will work and expect to achieve linear penetration by shooting a more stable bullet. I think Wapiti hit the nail on the head with his diagnosis. I'd still like to hear from some others who have used that bullet.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I had a complete pass through on a high shoulder shot on an elk with a 200 grain accubond in a 300 wm. Can't help with the 7mm.

 

[swampshooter]

Thanks zfast Malibu, that is significant as it's starting to prove that the plastic tip is not the guilty party.

 

[BigDMT]

Thanks zfast Malibu, that is significant as it's starting to prove that the plastic tip is not the guilty party.

The answer to all of your prayers is the Berger 168gr VLD

 

[JimT]

RWK, Yes, I am complaining. I desire straight line penetration, or close to it. When I hit an elk in the chest broadside and the bullet winds up in a back ham tearing up sirloins, and tearing up the tenderloins and a portion of the backstrap on the way. Yes, I am definitely complaining. Meat damage should have been restricted to a couple of ribs and lung tissue which I don't eat anyway. I'm not hunting for horns. I'm a meat hunter. There is no more space on my walls for horns or trophies. I've already had to take five heads to the LGS because I don't have room for them on my walls.

Wapiti, This rifle is a re-barreled 7mm Rem Mag. Re-barreled with a factory Rem. barrel. I in 9.5 twist. That should be plenty fast enough to stabilize 160 gr. bullet. You might be onto something though. The problem might be the length of the bullet causing an instability factor, with a small boattail and a plastic tip it is definitely longer than most 160's. I remember talking to Bill Steigers many years ago and he told me that he twists his barrels fast to the point of losing velocity and a little bit of accuracy in order to achieve straight line penetration with his Bitterroot Bonded Core Bullets, which were the first ever bonded bullet on the market. I'm going to shoot the Speer 160 gr. Grand Slam next year, a much shorter bullet than the AccuBond. It doesn't have as good a BC but I'm not a long range shooter of animals, just targets at long range for me. I'll post the results of next years hunt in case this stuff interests anybody besides me.

What did the people at Nosler say when you called them up to discuss your results and dissatisfaction???

 

[Hoier]

I have also shot alot of animals with a Accubond. Mine were 180s out of a 30-378. Ive shot deer, elk, bighorn sheep and antelope. All shots were pass throughs. Even on one of the deer at 600 with a shoulder shot toally destroyed both shoulders and evrything in between.

 

[swampshooter]

Jim T. I have not called the Nosler Techs yet. I wanted to see if I could figure out why this is happening before I did that. I wanted to try and find out if anyone else had had this problem. I'm not really sure that three shots is truly indicative of a problem. That's about like taking the results of one 3-shot group as gospel. Might be a problem and might be just coincidental. I do believe that I will call them now with our spin stabilization theory or lack of spin stabilization theory I should say and see what they have to say.
I bought some 200 gr. Nosler AccuBonds for my 300 mag on Thursday. I might try them out next season. I'm almost 68 years old and have some health issues. I'm not really fond of the 300 mags recoil anymore. I've also got other bullets for my 7 mag. but only one elk permit, so this might take the rest of my life to figure it out.

 

[AckleymanII]

Straight line penetration, that is a joke! Bill Davis working at Aberdine Proving grounds documented thousands of cases where all kinds of hogs were shot with all kinds of cartridges. Bottom line, no telling which direction a bullet will take upon impact with tissue, muscle, tendons, bones, etc. Other things to consider are angle of entry, impact velocity, etc.

I can remember seeing a movie made in the late 60's of a herd of elephants being thinned out. Rifle used was a 458 Winchester with 500g solids. Shots documented were broadside shots, behind the front leg, typical lung shots. The camera angle was from a Head on shot facing the elephants as they were being shot. Every shot had complete penetration on the elephant, no matter what the size. Bullets would go through at all kinds of angles and the camera man was showing some concern for his safety. Every elephant hit the ground immediately upon being hit, without exception.

Best wishes on your straight line penetration.

 

[wboggs]

Best straight line penetration on large African animals is with a flat point moving around 2400fps with a fairly fast twist. Do not know what type bullets they were using in the .458 Win. but round nose solids were not that good. The old Win solid in .375 was terrible and it had a small flat point.
Bill