AA-2230 vs Win 748

[AWS]

They have been favorites for many years but the overlap is so close that I'm thinking about eliminating one. I load them in 20P 222 Rem, .223, 22-204, 22-250, 350 Rem Mag and 375 Win

What are your thoughts.

 

[Davers]

Never used AA-2230 powder, but I've had excellent results using WW-748 in my .308 rifles.

 

[SeabeeKen]

I've used both over the years. Very similar. 748 Shot great in my 308 and 30-30. Never tried it in my 223.
A-2230 used to be the exact same powder as Ramshot Xterminator before Hodgdon bought them and they were made in Belguim. Now they say made in the USA so not so sure. When I asked Hodgdon if they were still the same, the reply was Ramshot is Ramshot. Whatever that means. I've always had good results with Ramshot. Tough choice between 748 and 2230. I think I would let my targets decide.

 

[jelenko]

Isn't W 748 is lot slower than 2230?

 

[BoydAllen]

I've used both over the years. Very similar. 748 Shot great in my 308 and 30-30. Never tried it in my 223.
A-2230 used to be the exact same powder as Ramshot Xterminator before Hodgdon bought them and they were made in Belguim. Now they say made in the USA so not so sure. When I asked Hodgdon if they were still the same, the reply was Ramshot is Ramshot. Whatever that means. I've always had good results with Ramshot. Tough choice between 748 and 2230. I think I would let my targets decide.

I have researched where Xterminator and 2230 are currently being made. Back when Western Powders was distributing both I was told by them that they were identical, from the same plant in Belgium, just sold under two names. Recently, post Hodgdon's acquisition, I have found that 2230 is currently being made in Florida, while Xterminator is still made in Belgium.

 

[choprzrul]

I have a lightweight 20" Savage 6.5CM that used W748 to get 85gr Hammer Hunters to 3402 fps. I didn't like the temp instability I was seeing....hard bolt lift over 70*.

I did load development with Winchester's StaBall MATCH since they are side by side on burn rate charts. It used more powder (from 44.0gr to 46.5gr) but MATCH gave me 3431 fps and no issues with temperatures.

Just something to think about.

 

[Lead Slanger]

I have researched where Xterminator and 2230 are currently being made. Back when Western Powders was distributing both I was told by them that they were identical, from the same plant in Belgium, just sold under two names. Recently, post Hodgdon's acquisition, I have found that 2230 is currently being made in Florida, while Xterminator is still made in Belgium.

I was JUST looking on Hodgdon's load data on both AA2230 and Ramshot Xterminator because I'm trying to figure out which one i would like to use as well. The load data for both AA2230 and Ramshot Xterminator are identical. At least in a .223 using a 50-55gr projectile.

 

[Laurie]

I was JUST looking on Hodgdon's load data on both AA2230 and Ramshot Xterminator because I'm trying to figure out which one i would like to use as well. The load data for both AA2230 and Ramshot Xterminator are identical. At least in a .223 using a 50-55gr projectile.

This situation frequently applies when companies change suppliers. This can be either a permanent change, or as often happens, short-term when supplies are tight internationally, usually due to a war somewhere and increased military demand. There was another Ramshot vs Accurate powder match I noticed some years ago: Ramshot Wild Boar (a Europe-only grade) and IIRC Accurate-2520. Western's data showed not only the same start/max weights for several cartridges, but also identical bullet choices with MVs and max pressures identical to the single fps and psi.

The obvious assumption was they were identical powders and as we get Wild Boar in the UK plainly made in by Eurenco P B Clermont in Belgium, but no Accurate brand powders, I stated the latter appeared to originate in Belgium. Yet when I mentioned this in a forum post, more than one Accurate Shooter Forum member replied not so as it states 'Made in USA' on the label. It seems Western switched its supplier to General Dynamics St. Marks at some point, but continued with now out of date loads data.

With so many powder grades now available, there is often barely any difference in burn rate and charge weights, especially between fast to medium burn rate grades. So, 2230/XTerminator data being identical is no proof of anything much. I suspect there will be a lot more of this going on with Hodgdon's recent takeovers of its former competitors. Hodgdon has close and longstanding ties to St. Marks which has long supplied the Hodgdon 'spherical' grades, and it no doubt makes a lot of commercial sense on cost and procurement/convenience/transport grounds to switch ball powder manufacture there wherever possible. That impulse will now be strengthened given a 15% US government tariff applied to imported Eurenco/Ramshot products.

 

[SeabeeKen]

I have researched where Xterminator and 2230 are currently being made. Back when Western Powders was distributing both I was told by them that they were identical, from the same plant in Belgium, just sold under two names. Recently, post Hodgdon's acquisition, I have found that 2230 is currently being made in Florida, while Xterminator is still made in Belgium.

I found the same thing except my xterminator label says made in usa, hence my call to hodgdon

 

[SeabeeKen]

This situation frequently applies when companies change suppliers. This can be either a permanent change, or as often happens, short-term when supplies are tight internationally, usually due to a war somewhere and increased military demand. There was another Ramshot vs Accurate powder match I noticed some years ago: Ramshot Wild Boar (a Europe-only grade) and IIRC Accurate-2520. Western's data showed not only the same start/max weights for several cartridges, but also identical bullet choices with MVs and max pressures identical to the single fps and psi.

The obvious assumption was they were identical powders and as we get Wild Boar in the UK plainly made in by Eurenco P B Clermont in Belgium, but no Accurate brand powders, I stated the latter appeared to originate in Belgium. Yet when I mentioned this in a forum post, more than one Accurate Shooter Forum member replied not so as it states 'Made in USA' on the label. It seems Western switched its supplier to General Dynamics St. Marks at some point, but continued with now out of date loads data.

With so many powder grades now available, there is often barely any difference in burn rate and charge weights, especially between fast to medium burn rate grades. So, 2230/XTerminator data being identical is no proof of anything much. I suspect there will be a lot more of this going on with Hodgdon's recent takeovers of its former competitors. Hodgdon has close and longstanding ties to St. Marks which has long supplied the Hodgdon 'spherical' grades, and it no doubt makes a lot of commercial sense on cost and procurement/convenience/transport grounds to switch ball powder manufacture there wherever possible. That impulse will now be strengthened given a 15% US government tariff applied to imported Eurenco/Ramshot products.

You are correct Laurie, 2520 and wild boar are the same with wild boar not being available in the US. Western powders sent me the pamphlet for wb some years back. Cant find it at the moment.

 

[Loudenboomer]

To the OP you could consider making AA2460 your choice. It's a little slower burn rate than 2230 and more temp stable than Win 748.

 

[SKWERLZ]

Both are excellent.

 

[AckleymanII]

In my experience, Win 748 and AA2230 are two different worlds. Pay attention to your lot# on the 2230 when you work up loads, note the lot #. The 2230 Lot# that I have is very good in the 6 BR-6 Dasher with light bullets in 12-14 twists with short freebore. AA2230, my lot#, is also very good with the 223 AI with 50g bullets.

Throat life with AA2230 is at least twice, perhaps three times, that of Varget, IMR XBR 8208, and Benchmark, not to mention that it cleans up a lot easier!

If you start off with a 6 BR with zero to .030, use AA2230 with 55-75g Bullets, your barrel life will go beyond 5000 rounds, easy. H335 has the same barrel life.