a couple 20 vartarg?

[MildBill]

I have an interest in getting a rifle barreled in 20 vt.

It seems like it is a really neat little round.

I would like to use this for varmints like groundhogs, skunks, feral ditch tigers and things of that nature.

am leaning towards building on a Rem 700 action in an hs precision stock, or maybe a stockys accublock stock

what barrel contour are folks mostly using. I am thinking sporter or a little on the heavy side sporter, I presume that will not hinder accuracy for my intended uses.

Also have folks used benchmark powder with success in the 20 vt?

thanks!!

 

[BigDMT]

On my 20 VT I have a 22" full bull McGowen barrel on a savage short action. I like the heavier barrels for cooling purposes during rapid firing sessions. I used to use 24" barrels, but am really starting to like the handiness and balance of the shorter 22" barrels I am now using.

Still good speeds too. I load my 20 VT moderately and push a 34gr bullet at around 3520 fps with Ramshot X-Terminator powder. Could go faster, around 3600-3700 fps with a faster powder like AA1680 or Hodgdon Lil' Gun, but want to get maximum life from my barrel since it is so accurate with X-Terminator.

I would recommend a light varmint contour or remington varmint contour on your 700 action. If you want to try the 22" length, I think you'll really like it. Especially if you're looking for a handy truck rifle. Have fun and good luck if you decide to build one. They are great little rifles


My 20VT with a victim

Accuracy of 5 shots at 100 yards using Ramshot X-Terminator, Rem 221 FB brass, and Fed 205 primers.

IMPORTANT NOTE:: If you build a 20 VT, do not use 17 FB brass. The necks get too weak when enlarged to 20 cal and will crack during sizing or after minimal firings. Be sure to buy 221 FB brass. Take Care!

 

[th82457]

I built a .20 VT on a CZ 527 action with a 22.5" heavy sporter contour barrel. It shoots about any load I throw at it well. Seems to prefer AA1680 and H322 best with 32 to 35 grain bullets. Since the cartridge burns from 18-20 grains of powder - it does not heat barrels as quickly as a .223 or .204 so I am not convinced on the need for a heavy barrel unless you are using for prairie dog shooting. I like the CZ for its balance and ease of carry. CZ also comes with a single set trigger. Just my two cents worth.

 

[boltfluter]

A friend has one that is built on a Ruger actions of all things. It absolutely drives tacks with H4198. Great little round. 8)

Regards, Paul.

www.boltfluting.com

 

[SmokinJoe]

MildBill, you need to be checking this on saubier.com also. There is probably a better chance of finding what you want there. I have two 20VT & it is my favorite PD round currently. My powder preferences are H4198 & N-130, but have some AA2200 waiting to be tried.

 

[MildBill]

SmokinJoe,

thanks for the reference to the other site for additional information

 

[bhoges]

Im using 4198 18.2gr with a 32gr Vmax. I think its about 3600 and is a tac driver. Its the only rifle I go chuck hunting with now. No recoil and you see your impacts. I like it so much I had one built off a BAT SV action and dropped 3k on the wood. Buy once cry once.

 

[tjtjwdad]

"I am leaning towards building on a Rem 700 action in an hs precision stock, or maybe a stockys accublock stock..."

I'm in process of doing the same thing w/R700 action. There closest thing to a 20VT Remington offers in a R700 is the 17-Fireball (same case just necked down to 17 cal although I'm unsure of the neck angle/degree). In comparing a 17-Fireball action to a 204 Ruger action there are some issues you need to be aware of;

1. Bolt Face.

The bolt face is different. The size and depth of the bolt face is the same but the extractor on the 17-Fireball bolt has been relocated up near the top (12:00) of the bolt vice, off to the side for the 204. I've read this was done because Remington was having ejection problems with the shorter case. I tried unloading some 221 Fireball brass out of my 204 Ruger several times and once the case cleared the chamber it separated from bolt and stayed either part way in the chamber or on top of the next round. When performing the same test with my 17-Fireball bolt, I did-not have this issue. Unfortunately, Remington doesn't sell bolts separately.

Another difference is not only the location but the shape of the extractor has a slightly different shape. Along with that, the ejector edge of the two are different. One is more radius and the other is more square. And last, on the FWD edge of the bolt lugs (side facing the chamber) there is a vertical line with a bend radius that matches the curvature of the bolt head on each lug. Dunno' what they're for. Here is a thread from another site that shows the differences.

http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=137&t=78048&start=10

2. Loading block, follower and spring. These too are different. Fortunately, these can be purchased thru Remington and will be needed for feeding if used as a repeater.

3. Actions. Until I get my 17-Fireball action (in a couple of weeks) I won't know if there are any differences. I've heard both ways and when I've called Remington on different occasions I get different answers to that question. From a cost perspective it would seem to me that they are no different than a 223/204/243 or any other short action.

For powder I've read H4198 & RE-7 have worked the best but I'm sure others work well too

HTH,

Jim

 

[ab_bentley]

I make my own brass from Virgin LC 223 and to say it's 1000x's better is just a start. In a well made firearm like Stiller or a fully worked over Remington (bushed pin)you can obtain useable speed and accuracy only dreamt about.

In my rifle I run AA2200 with a 32gr VMax @ 4100fps and this type of accuracy.

In fact in my rifle 4100fps and these groups (right side) are very common. I use a CCI 450 primer also.
This is also coming from a 22" barrel. I have shot these cases (4100fps) 9 times now with lots of life left in them.

Just something to think about when going down this road, a little of your time making cases and the reward is life long brass. Adam

 

[MildBill]

thanks for the info.

it appears I need to be looking for a donor action in 17 fireball or 221 fireball...

 

[tjtjwdad]

thanks for the info.

it appears I need to be looking for a donor action in 17 fireball or 221 fireball...

That is what I did but then I discovered that the R700 SA Bolt I purchased last year for a 223 project turned out to be a 17 Fireball Bolt. I went with the 20 VT because I was already into the project (dies, trim dies etc) before I realized this. Some folks like the 17 Fireball and maybe it is worth considering if you're not committed to 20 cals. Ballistically, I'm guessing the 20 VT would have a little better wind resistence and maybe a little better horsepower down range where as the 17 FB may shoot a little flatter.
So I may end up with a second 20 VT someday but won't know for sure until I actually see if there is a difference between the Fireball and STD R700 short actions.

It seems the purpose of the extractor location is to keep case tension on the top part of the chamber vs the side so the case just doesn't flop out as soon as it clears.

I've read where some folks have used a 223 bolt face and don't have any issues whereas others do. Also, if it is a single shot it might not matter. If you don't mind CZ's they might work because they sell the 527 in 221 Fireball. I've heard to convert from a 204 to a 221 Fireball is just switch magazines and barrel. Also, PTG will probably make a 20 VT bolt. MAybe worth asking...

 

[tjtjwdad]

thanks for the info.

it appears I need to be looking for a donor action in 17 fireball or 221 fireball...

To follow up;

I have the Remington 700 17-Fireball action in hand and the feed ramp is different from my 204's. Whether or not a STD SA will function reliably as a repeater w/o this mod is unknown to me. So if you want a 20vt repeater then a 17-Fireball donor action may be needed. Although they're out there, Remington discontinued them earlier this year. Be weary because some online retailers have jacked the price up on them because of this.

Good luck!

 

[flatlander]

I'd never paid that much attention to the differences that tjtjwdad pointed out - not sure of the significance, since the M700CDL in 17FB I used as the basis for my 20VT is the only action I've built a VarTarg on. But sure enough, all the little points he mentioned were present when I pulled my 20VT out of the closet and checked.

I ordered two of the 2007 17FB CDL specials from Zanders, kept the one with the nicest stock, then sold the other one. I sent the OEM fluted SS 17 FB bbl. to Bartlein and had them copy the taper for the 20 cal, 5-groove bbl they made for me. Finished it at 26", which is probably a couple of inches longer than needed to get good velocity. Put a glass bead blasted finish on it that closely matches the blasted finish on the Rem SS action, then put the whole thing right back into the CDL stock (after swapping out the X-Mark Pro trigger for a Rifle Basix). Mounted a Nikon 6-24x50 Monarch in Leupold PRW rings clamped to an EGW silver anodized 0 MOA rail, and have a pretty little rifle.

First test group I shot with it was good enough to give me expectations of really great accuracy, but I've never been able to duplicate it. Need to put some other projects on the backburner and work with this little rig until it shoots like it should. It's just too purty to give up on, and besides, I still think the 20 VT is a dandy little cartridge.

 

[tjtjwdad]

Dennis,

Take a look at your brass quality. Any Remington/Winchester brass I purchased in the 2009/2010 time frame really varied from LOT-to LOT. I'd start by picking up a decent tube gage and measure the case necks for uniformity. Mr. Bentley who has posted in this thread offers a good deal IMO for custom 20 VT brass made from LC military brass. As an old M14 Service Rifle competitor I can tell you LC brass is pretty darn consistent if it is from the same LOT. I just prepped over 700 M852 cases for a friend of mine and I didn't have to turn a single neck. Those that were tossed aside for foulers/sighters were out side the 1% weight sort window.

The 17 Fireball I picked up is a SPS Varmint with the flimsy stock and matt finish. I have a HS Precision to put it in.

HTH,

 

[ab_bentley]

Here is a picture of what AA2200 and a 40gr Vmax does using LC Brass. 3750fps and accuracy to boot. Adam

 

[SShooterZ]

You can correct the extraction issues in a M700 by installing a Sako extractor. This is if the donor is a .222/.223. I had Bob Green do that to my .17FB and haven't had an issue.

For my .20VT, I used a M7 .17FB action, did not do the Sako extractor and it ejects the cases with authority.

So, if the donor is a Fireball, you're OK. If it is a .222/.223/.204, think of spending a little and doing the Sako extractor.

 

[tjtjwdad]

So, if the donor is a Fireball, you're OK. If it is a .222/.223/.204, think of spending a little and doing the Sako extractor.

Do you know if the 20 VT will feed properly as a repeater in a STD short action? Just curious.

 

[flatlander]

I recently bought an 8lb jug of the new AA2200, intending to use it in an 18" 6.8 SPC AR15 I'd put together a couple of years ago. From what I've read on the 6.8 forums, the combination of Hornady SPC brass & AA2200 is the ticket for best accuracy out of the SPC.

I tried AA2200 in light-bullet fireforming loads in a bolt action 6 RAT, and got decent results FF'ing with bullets as light as 75grs. Now I've got another rifle to try 2200 in, and still haven't gotten around to trying it in the Hornady SPC brass that I originally purchased it for.

On the brass issue - I bought 500pcs of R-P 221 FB from Midway while I was waiting on the Bartlein bbl. Found early on that primer pockets were too shallow in about 5% of it to allow primers to be seated flush, let alone slightly below flush. I'm thinking I should send a few of the shallow ones back to R-P and ask nicely for 30-40 extras to make up for the poor QC.

 

[Rick in Oregon]

On the brass issue - Found early on that primer pockets were too shallow in about 5% of it to allow primers to be seated flush, let alone slightly below flush.

Yeah, I've noticed that too. Any more, the very first thing I do when opening a new bag of bulk brass, is to uniform ALL the primer pockets, regardless of how they look. I get some brass out of almost every one, many just one side or the other, showing that the punch tooling used was worn excessively during manufacture, and should have been replaced or changed.

Unless you're using Norma or Lapua brass, figure on uniforming all those primer pockets, regardless of domestic brand. After uniforming 650 R-P 221FB cases for my Cooper 20VT recently, I found that a full 100% of them had too shallow of primer pockets and HAD to be uniformed for proper primer seating. If it's domestic brass, it will absolutely require primer pocket uniforming to obtain proper primer seating. JMO

 

[flatlander]

I thought about trying to find some more recent R-P 221 FB brass, but the two places I normally buy from are out of it. Makes me wonder if R-P only makes runs of it seasonally, or if there's just a huge demand for it with all the interest in the 300 Whisper & Blackout?

The thing that bothers me about using a primer pocket uniforming cutter to deepen these shallow pockets is how thin the casehead web will wind up being after I cut the pockets to depth. Better to send it all back to R-P and let them find a use for it.