Looking for sum input. Has anyone ever used the 87gr. Vmax on whitetail? I know its a varmint bullet but ive heard of some people using the 105 amax on deer. Thanks.
87gr. Vmax performance on deer?
- Thread starter funkyon4wheels
- Start date
We have used the 105 Amax out of a 243win for the first time this year and dad took a doe at 240 yards. She only ran 30-40 yards with a double lung hit. As far as the vmax this is the next load we r going to use. Dad had open heart 3 months ago and needs a light recoiling load this year so i loaded up some 87 Vmax. I will keep u posted after our two week season.
I get the part about dropping them with a lung shot and don't dispute that but the thing I'd be concerned about with this bullet is hitting the deer on the shoulder and the bullet blowing up and not penetrating the vitals leaving a nasty non lethal wound on the animal.
Why not choose a bullet designed for white tail rather than gambling with a varmint bullet?
Why not choose a bullet designed for white tail rather than gambling with a varmint bullet?
The answer is yes; a 87 grain vmax will kill a deer. The better question, is it the right choice for deer in a 6mm or 243? The answer to that is a resounding no. The bullets are not meant for or designed to kill deer sized animals.
If recoil is of key concern you are better off using a heavier bullet designed for deep penetration and compensating by working up a load with a lower velocity. A target bullet is meant for targets and it's going to fail if it comes in contact with bone. Nosler makes a 90 grain Spitzer ballistic tip designed for hunting. Berger makes 95 and 105 grain hunting bullets in the same caliber.
The unfortunate reality is there is always someone who thinks they have all the answers and make recommendations about something they know little if anything about. If you are still uncertain, contact Berger and Nosler for their input. Both companies will tell you target bullets are made for paper.
The difference in recoil between a 87 grain bullet versus a 90, 95 or even a 105 grain is nominal at best. I'm willing to bet the average person could not tell the difference. The easiest way to minimize recoil is a reduced charge.
If recoil is of key concern you are better off using a heavier bullet designed for deep penetration and compensating by working up a load with a lower velocity. A target bullet is meant for targets and it's going to fail if it comes in contact with bone. Nosler makes a 90 grain Spitzer ballistic tip designed for hunting. Berger makes 95 and 105 grain hunting bullets in the same caliber.
The unfortunate reality is there is always someone who thinks they have all the answers and make recommendations about something they know little if anything about. If you are still uncertain, contact Berger and Nosler for their input. Both companies will tell you target bullets are made for paper.
The difference in recoil between a 87 grain bullet versus a 90, 95 or even a 105 grain is nominal at best. I'm willing to bet the average person could not tell the difference. The easiest way to minimize recoil is a reduced charge.
Thanks, I know the Vmax isnt designed for deer but ive got a great 1/2 moa groundhog load using the Vmax and was just contemplating using it for deer season. As far as penetration goes thats my main concern using the Vmax, so I did some testing, at 300 yds it'll pass thru a 1 inch thick peice of ash wood. Tommorow im gonna do sum more tests. Mabye screw a couple 2x6's together and see how many it'll punch thru. If I dont think the penetration is sufficient i'll invest in some Bergers or Noslers. If I recall correctly the bergers are designed to penetrate a couple inches and then rapidly come apart. IMHO thats exactly what the Vmax's are doing. Just how hard is a deers shoulder?
Why dont you use the vmax and aim for the neck? Will defiantly be a bang flop.
Dad is 79 years old and an x marine. He will give any of the young fellas a run for their money at our local ranges. He only shoots 1 shot kills"double Lung" and would not be aiming for a shoulder plate. Now i will once again quote dad "There is only an inch of fur and a rib bone between u and two lungs" You would be hard pressed to find a whitetail that will deflect an 87 grain pill traveling 3050fps. If the bullet comes apart at impact Where r all the fragments going??? I know i wouldnt want a whole bunch of shrapnel traveling thru my lungs. Im in the same boat as the op as for the reason for using this load. It is my lightweight coyote gun and i would hate to start messing with loads and the scope. Dont be afraid for a wounded animal cuz i will b sitting in the blind with him carrying a 7mm08 spitting 140 partitions. I will post the performance of the 87Vmax in a week or so.onelastshot said:
The pic below is a 105Amax target bullet out of a 243win on a whitetail "Double Lung Shot" this was at 240 yards and a perfect exit hole
Attachments
Hornady makes an 87g SST, which I think would be a better option. I would be very surprised if load workup for it turned out to be radically different from what you are using for the VMAX. I would also expect the zero and point of impact to be pretty close.
If recoil reduction is your main goal, Hornady loads a reduced recoil round with an 87g SST with a MV of around 2800 fps. I think it can only be had through Cabela's, but am not sure about that. It is a very mild shooting load and has consistently produced sub 1/2" groups @ 100 yards from my unmodified sporter weight .243. It was far and away the most accurate of the factory loads I tried.
If recoil reduction is your main goal, Hornady loads a reduced recoil round with an 87g SST with a MV of around 2800 fps. I think it can only be had through Cabela's, but am not sure about that. It is a very mild shooting load and has consistently produced sub 1/2" groups @ 100 yards from my unmodified sporter weight .243. It was far and away the most accurate of the factory loads I tried.
I load the 87g Vmax bullet and the 85g Interbond bullet for my nephews .243. I change nothing between the 2 bullets while loading; same powder charge, no change to seating die. How loaded, the 2 bullets have the same velocity and same POI out to 300 yards(farthest we have tested). He uses the Vmax for practice and vermin, uses the Interbond for deer. The Interbond is a hunting bullet and he has taken 2 deer with that bullet with great results(exit with shoulder shot). One last thing, Litz says the BC between the two is only 0.010 favoring the Vmax(0.382 vs 0.372).
Just another idea.
Just another idea.
In a perfect world all deer would present themselves broadside and afford us the opportunity to shoot them while standing. Almost any bullet will penetrate under these circumstances. In real life we are often afforded shots that are less than desirable. If an animal is facing you or quartering towards you, the best of shooters will often hit bone. All too often the hunter is given a window of opportunity of only few seconds to shoot before the animal disappears in heavy timber.
I've seen a deer hit with a 140 grain Nosler partition from a 7x57 and disintegrate on impacting the shoulder. Three hours of tracking, it was found still alive almost a mile away. After the animal was skinned and hung, the entire exterior shoulder section was torn apart from bullet fragments, but nothing penetrated the lung/heart cavity. I'm sure that numerous hunters have put target rounds through heavy bone and had great success. I'm also sure that a lot of crippled animals have been the result of poor bullet choice.
The important fact is a bullet not designed for hunting has a greater potential to fail. Hunters have an ethical obligation to take game as humanely as possible, with quick clean kills.
If you are hunting open fields and are disciplined enough to limit yourself to only broadside shots, go for it. Nosler, Winchester, Barnes, Berger, Hornady and an array of other companies offer more varieties of bullets specifically designed for hunting than the average hunter will ever have the chance to put to use afield. There are numerous 6mm 87 grain bullets designed for hunting; Berger has one with the same sectional density and an almost identical ballistic coefficient as the Hornady Vmax that should result in very similar if not identical POI.
I've seen a deer hit with a 140 grain Nosler partition from a 7x57 and disintegrate on impacting the shoulder. Three hours of tracking, it was found still alive almost a mile away. After the animal was skinned and hung, the entire exterior shoulder section was torn apart from bullet fragments, but nothing penetrated the lung/heart cavity. I'm sure that numerous hunters have put target rounds through heavy bone and had great success. I'm also sure that a lot of crippled animals have been the result of poor bullet choice.
The important fact is a bullet not designed for hunting has a greater potential to fail. Hunters have an ethical obligation to take game as humanely as possible, with quick clean kills.
If you are hunting open fields and are disciplined enough to limit yourself to only broadside shots, go for it. Nosler, Winchester, Barnes, Berger, Hornady and an array of other companies offer more varieties of bullets specifically designed for hunting than the average hunter will ever have the chance to put to use afield. There are numerous 6mm 87 grain bullets designed for hunting; Berger has one with the same sectional density and an almost identical ballistic coefficient as the Hornady Vmax that should result in very similar if not identical POI.
Again thanks for all of the input. I knew asking this question was gonna bring up the whole ethics debate and knew I would get a lecture. The only reason I asked is this question is because im having a hard time bringin myself to shoot a varmit bullet at deer eventhough the accuracy, energy and penetration seem to b sufficient to bring down a deer with proper shot placement. But then again alot of farmers I know classify deer as a varmint. ;D Personally I dont like to take anything but broadside boiler room shots on deer that are relaxed and unaware and dont plan any shoulder shots. I will be hunting open fields and will be limiting myself to 300yds. If the deer dont present me with a shot I want, i'll let it walk. A man has got to know his limitations. Im not a fan of the if its brown its down, let the lead fly mentality. As for recoil its not a factor for me as it is for 1holeaddicts father and I was hoping to have another rifle just for deer but it wasnt in the budget so ive gotta use what I got.
Very well put my friend. I do respect ur point of view as to not taking the PERFECT SHOT. Dad has taught me this many years ago. Here in Pa we are doing alot of timber hunting and with dad not having the reflects he once had i try to hunt secluded brushy areas that deer get pushed and then just sneak around in so he has more time and doesnt have to shoot in a split second. I am going to try some Partitions and ballistic tips today to see if the poi is fairly close and if so we will use them on Monday.funkyon4wheels said:
Good Shooting and b SAFE
bluealtered
Silver $$ Contributor
I have used the 87gr vmax on predators for years, it is drt but makes a mess. The SST is a much better choice. blue
Try swapping them out with an 87gn Berger.
I do however have an unopened box of 87gn Vmax that I've been meaning to try out.
I do however have an unopened box of 87gn Vmax that I've been meaning to try out.
I've killed a number of antelope at ranges from 230 yards all the way to 712 with the 87 VMAX. This is from an AR10T at a MV of ~3200fps. Antelope aren't that big, and the majority of whitetails in the southern part of the US aren't either. It's not my first choice for the big bodied mulie buck around here, but I'd take a doe in a minute with it. It may say VMAX on the box, but those bullets are a lot tougher than the name implies. This comes after years of experience with it. I've shot truckloads of coyotes with the 87 VMAX from about 30 yards to 785. It is a fantastic bullet in 6mm. I have exactly two loads for my .243. The H4350 and 87 VMAX load, and the 105 Berger and Retumbo load. For the consummate load tinkerer, this is insanity. Two loads for a rifle I've had for almost a decade? Unheard of.
For those who question "conventional" wisdom, give little creedence to those who have not. It is far better to garner the advice of those who have, or at least tried and failed.
For those who question "conventional" wisdom, give little creedence to those who have not. It is far better to garner the advice of those who have, or at least tried and failed.
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