Wondering if anyone has a first hand opinion of the 80% AR lowers out there...piece of cake and worth it or POS.
80% lowers ?
- Thread starter Steve Ladino
- Start date
butchlambert
Site $$ Sponsor
Why, unless you want a unit without a Ser.#. Can't legally sell it or give it away as a completed lower. I don't see that you could save a penny as 100% are pretty cheap right now.
The only point in 80% lowers is to have a weapon that is not traceable to you. If you believe the government is not ever going to try to confiscate firearms then they're pointless. If on the other hand you believe that the government is keeping lists of who has purchased which firearms with the intention of using that list to come after them then 80% lowers are the ticket to avoiding that.
Unless the same government also has the list of who the company sold the 80% lowers to. You're still SOL.
I would like to do one just for the challenge of it. And I don't plan on selling it or any others that I personally build so that don't bother me. Also it is quit a bit cheaper, ar15 or ar10. Don't see why everybody is down on them.
shortgrass
Silver $$ Contributor
And when they come to confiscate the firearms you bought 'over the counter', they'll leave those that aren't on the 'list'. (I'm looking for the little "sarcastic" icon, but can't find it!)
If all AR's are outlawed, ALL of them will have to be kept hidden whether serial numbered or not.
I've legally sold a few in the past, and I'm sure anything I might be asked about in the future, will be one of those.
I've legally sold a few in the past, and I'm sure anything I might be asked about in the future, will be one of those.
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One of the biggest reasons people are down on them is because what really makes them not worth it is the finish. The mil-spec finish is hard anodize and it's called out in the spec for a reason. Most guys dismiss this because they cant do anything about it and either just paint them or apply Gun-Kote or some other spray and bake type finish and pretend it's going to be okay. You could send it away when you are done and have it hard anodized, but the cost to do one exceeds a finished factory lower.
Without the hard anodize the trigger, hammer and take down pin holes pretty quickly wallow out. The upper to lower gets sloppy and the hammer/trigger gets mushy in little to no time, accuracy suffers but the homemade guys still pretend it isn't so. Even the factory ones that are properly finished with hard anodize eventually start to wear and get sloppy. When you factor in the tools you need, how long it takes to finish the thing and also how long they last...it is really not any cheaper at all. I think they got popular when there weren't any available and finishing an 80% lower was the only way. The big question to ask the guys that tell you how great it is to make a lower this way is "what about the hard anodize so it don't wallow out??????"
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I've built a few and am now happy with the results. It isn't cheap for sure, but that isn't why we do it. I purchased a good jig and all the cutting bits, then added a reamer for the trigger and hammer pin holes.
If you want further details, just send a PM and I'll help all I can.
Richard
If you want further details, just send a PM and I'll help all I can.
Richard
I would opine that most of the people who build one of these are not doing so with the idea of organized competition, or to save money.
Perhaps thinking about them makes more sense if you imagine Hillary would have won the election.
I have seen them for sale at every gun show for the last two years. Cash Money, no form 4473...
Perhaps thinking about them makes more sense if you imagine Hillary would have won the election.
I have seen them for sale at every gun show for the last two years. Cash Money, no form 4473...
I see! but does that mean just normal use or changing Out pins and uppers on and off? If you didn't I wouldn't think they would wear that fast. But I could be wrong.
"If you didn't"......didn't what??? clean the gun????
I have completed several "80%" lowers and at first they all worked just fine. They wear pretty quickly just from opening them to do the necessary cleaning. You can get those little strap things that replace the hammer and trigger pins to do away with that wear...in fact, I have them on all of my AR's and I recommend them to anyone that has an AR. It's the take down pins that really are the problem...it's an automatic and it must be taken down and cleaned, so it depends on how much you shoot.
I am not saying don't make one...I did. I am saying do not be surprised when a couple months after you get it done there is excess slop between the upper and lower. An accu-wedge will tighten it up for a while, but then it wallows out more and you will see the accuracy go south again.
Just keep asking the same question to the guys that claim they are so great... "what about the hard anodize so it don't wallow out???" and listen carefully as they change the subject.
Maybe a better question to ask is, "if it's so unnecessary, how come all the factory made ones have the anodize???" and "What business manufactures them without it???"
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Yes I understand you have to tear them down for cleaning(obviously) but I didn't think you meant take down pins as much as the two trigger group pins. But what you are saying does make. And yes I know after awhile you should strip them down to clean the trigger group. You said you could send them out to be hardened, what does it cost? And I wonder about going to over sized pins as the originals ware out. I guess I am just used to doing things myself and am really big on doing one because of that and someone told me it was to hard to do unless you were a good machinist with all the tooling needed! But like I said I see what you are saying and can see it happening.
Also I have never used those wedges (didn't need to) do they help much?
Liven The Dream
Gold $$ Contributor
I would say ? You need the Fixtures , Cutting Tool, and a Milling Machine ( Not Cheap if don't have access )
When that is done Finish ? If you don't have that equipment ? Spray Paint ?
I think we have Turned The Corner ? After the 20th we can coast , I hope .
I must add I know good Machinist that have done some and have all the equipment to Finish them (and Money)
They came out better than most $80.00 striped Lowers.
When that is done Finish ? If you don't have that equipment ? Spray Paint ?
I think we have Turned The Corner ? After the 20th we can coast , I hope .
I must add I know good Machinist that have done some and have all the equipment to Finish them (and Money)
They came out better than most $80.00 striped Lowers.
Another website I frequent had a gentleman selling anodized sets upper/lower for $100. You should have seen the pictures he posted of "Ferrari Wicked Purple".
80% lowers are available with hard anodizing, so the only area susceptible for rapid wear is the trigger and hammer pin holes. These are not heavily stressed and if done with a reamer and not just a drill, they can hold up well for a long time.
The other factor that is to be considered is its use. The rifles that I use every week back and forth to the range are manufactured, with serial numbers and will be registered as assault weapons in our communist state of Kalifornia when the time comes. But, I may have a homemade rifle somewhere, just in case.
The other factor that is to be considered is its use. The rifles that I use every week back and forth to the range are manufactured, with serial numbers and will be registered as assault weapons in our communist state of Kalifornia when the time comes. But, I may have a homemade rifle somewhere, just in case.
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