7mm Questions...

[ducks-and-bucks]

I am looking at building a 7mm type rig for 1200-1300 yards max shots.... I am about to pull the trigger, and have an custom action ordered today for a 7 SAUM, (It's not to late for me to change my order yet) because of what I have read about them, but as it looks from looking for it, and I was told today from someone that has many years in the gun business, that the 7 SAUM may not be a good choice due to availability of brass, and it's getting less and less popular. The 7 SAUM is for the most part very close to the 7 WSM, which is much more popular and easier to find brass for... What are yall's thoughts on this subject? Should I stay with it, chamber to the WSM instead? Not mess with those two at all and do a regular 7 Mag.

Basically I am wanting this range of power 2800-3100 fps with 170-180 grain bullets... This rifle is being made for long range target shooting, and West Texas Mule deer and Aoudad hunting, where many HUNTING shots range from 500-800 yards. Due to the ruggedness of this terrain I want a bullet that packs that punch out a ways, but would still be inherently accurate for long range target shooting....

 

[pmarauder]

Remington and Nosler both make the 7saum Brass. You can also neck down the 300 SAUM brass from Norma. The Nosler brass is also Norma....just with the Nosler head stamp on it. Before all the shortages, you could find it anywhere.
It is a very efficient case (7SAUM). I can run it upto 3100 w/ the 180 Hybrids if I want to. It shoots best at 3000 fps. Very accurate.

Derek

 

[JThorsby]

Me too, but I went for a 7mm Rem. Mag. I think I have more choices of components.

 

[MTlager]

280 AI Nosler makes brass for it and they feed better out of the box

 

[Steve Blair]

There are a number of cartridges that fit the criteria you stated. All those previously mentioned and the standard .280 Remington. If you want to get into caliber .30... [br]
.300 WSM, .300 Win Mag., .30-338, etc. All of the above cartridges have proven themselves on the 1000 yard line and in the field, at one time or another. Take your pick.

 

[articmp]

280,280 AI, 284 shehane, 284 win, rem mag, STW. The 284's and 280's have proven themselves as accurate rounds.

 

[jp]

you may want to Google Vince Bottomley, he shoots the 7saum and has a very nice group. World record I believe. Not saying that the other calibers will not be good choices though. I have 284's , a 300 ultra,300 win mag,7mm rem mag, 280's, 6.5-06 they will out shoot the shooter. I like my 300 ultra for long range hunting also, a couple of years ago their was some young man that had the opportunity to shoot a custom 300 ultra out to 1500meters and found it was up to the task. once he got dailed in he shot 5 out of 5 at a I believe a 18" torso plate.. But on the other hand my 7rem mag has been pretty accurate to. One time when I was working up some loads at 600yds, I had the local RO and extra pit man to pull targets for me. after zeroing , I fired 3 -3 shot groups none were over 1 3/4 inches. I still have the targets and that's what I load to target shoot with. Sorry for such a long reply. I guess what I am trying to tell say is they are all good. Just depends on if you need 3000fps or not.. Hope this rambling helps .....JP

 

[Laurie]

you may want to Google Vince Bottomley, he shoots the 7saum and has a very nice group. World record I believe.

Vince holds the UK 1,000 yard record. It was with a 7mm/300WSM (.300WSM case necked down to 7mm.) He has played with the SAUM too - slightly smaller capacity better suited to the calibre in theory, but any 'improvement' in real life shooting rarely shows up.

Ballistically, a powerful seven will be better in a long-range unknown distance role than anything but the largest heaviest recoiling .30. Gary Costello in the UK (glc on this forum) has done some work on ultra long-range shooting with the 7WSM and found it superior to the .338 Lapua Magnum, most people's vision of the ultimate 1,000 yd + cartridge, at distances ~1,200-1,300 yards.

7SAUM, WSM, .280AI, 284 Shehane, 7STW 7mm BooBoo all have the sort of ballistics you want. The STW was developed specifically for ultra long-range beanfield hunting shots, but that was before the short magnums appeared on the scene.

 

[SuperiorRifles]

I had the same idea last year with a 1000 yard 7mm round that would be universal in differant hunting situations. I wanted something that would deliver the 180 Berger's in the 3000 fps range that I could hunt deer with but still had the power to hunt Elk as well. And there are a lot of good choices in the 7mm family. Here are a few that I considered: 7mm STW, 7mm Dakota, 7mm Rem Mag and the 7mm LRM I went with the 7mm LRM. Basically a 375 Ruger necked down to 7mm. I bought brass and dies with no problems. I absolutely love it! I use 72 grains of Retumbo and get just over 3000 fps in an 8 twist barrel. Just my thoughts. Enjoy!

Ryan Newsome
Superior Precision Rifles, LLC

 

[effendude]

Ducks,
Here are my thoughts if you plan to mainly use this for a hunting rifle. Buy a long action whether you are going magnum or not. The length will help with the long bullets you will be using. All the above comments regarding cartridge suggestions are good.

IMHO, a magnum cartridge has it's place when you start talking about hunting applications. Hurling a heavy/high BC bullet for retained hunting level energy requires a magnum. I have a couple of each of 7mm Rem, .300 Win, 300 Ultra Mag rifles currently. 7mm Ultra and .338 Ultras are being built right now. Also working on a .284 Shehane light mtn. rifle for mid-range work on sheep/deer/etc. I have a bias against Hornady dies and brass, otherwise the 7mm LRM designed by Gunwerks is interesting. It is sort of a lengthened SAUM or a shortened Ultra mag.

If I was building one rifle (gasp), I would build a .300 Rem Ultra Mag, using Nosler brass, Retumbo powder and Berger 210gr bullets. I would feel comfortable shooting anything that walks except elephants and cape/water buffalo.

Scott

 

[SuperiorRifles]

I guess one should consider all of the factors to help decide what would be the perfect round for what they are looking for. For example:

What is the main purpose of the gun? (Hunting, target etc..)
What animals if for hunting? (Obviously, Ground hogs and Elk are not going to be the same caliber)
How sensitive are you to recoil? (How much can you tolerate before you start flinching)
Once you narrow it down to a couple of calibers, look at the bullets. (Higher BC bullets means less error if say a rangefinding error occurs or a wind call was slightly off) IMO, it's hard to beat the 7mm bullets (180 gn 7mm Berger has a BC of .659 , and a 185 gn 30 cal Berger has a .549 BC) But if you use a 210 gn 30 cal Berger it has a .631 BC, still under the 180 gn 7mm. I built my 7mm LRM with the idea of using the 195 Berger's once they are released. The 195 gn 7mm Berger's are estimated to have a BC in the neighborhood of .794! The only other higher BC would be the 338 cal 300 gn. Not that the highest BC bullet is the most important thing to concider, it should be near the very top if we are talking about long range shooting. So if one could deliver a 180 gn bullet with a higher BC with less recoil, less powder and plenty of energy to take down an Elk at say 600-800 yards. Why hurt your shoulder and spend more money on powder in the process? But if your not worried about recoil and you don't mind using 90 something grains of powder and you want blistering speed go with the RUM. I'm just trying to say that you can narrow your search by deciding what your shooting and how far your shots are going.

 

[Gadget]

Your choice but I love my saum, I shoot match rifle 1000y to 1500y with it, 40 moa @1500y from a 100y zero.

Gadget

 

[effendude]

When talking about long range hunting or target shooting, using G1 BC's might make you feel better because the number is higher, but in reality the G7 number far more accurately describes the shape of a modern boattail bullet. The G7 number produces a more accurate long range flight prediction.

I think any high BC bullet from 180 gr and up, when launched with sufficient velocity will do the job on big game animals. I am a firm believer in muzzle brakes on long range rifles for hunting. With good position and follow-through, I have often watched the bullet impact the game animal, even with my .300 RUM. Recoil isn't a concern.

My buddy is a outfitter in Alaska and tells the story of when he became a fan of brakes. He had a hunter poorly wound a grizzly a few years back. My buddy had to make a 160 yard offhand shot at the running grizzly before it made it to the alders right at dusk. He stated that with the braked .338 Win Mag, he watched the hair part on the bear's chest as the bullet went into the bear's shoulder. He instantly knew the bear was DOA and no longer a concern to anyone. My buddy isn't scared of much, but wounded grizzly bears are his biggest concern. BTW, for those doubting the tale, my buddy was on the AMU for 4 years right out of high school.

Ducks, Enjoy the 6mmBR until you decide what you want to build for hunting. We still live in a great country where we can choose what works for each of us.

Scott

 

[Ivo]

I would concur that any magnum 7mm will do the trick and emphasize LONG ACTION even for the short mags. I have a PGWDTI Coyote in a 7WSM and wish I would have built on a long action, it makes things easier for getting the seating depth you desire as well as mag feeding.

 

[Nutjob]

Another thing to consider when choosing a bullet and case to push it, is terminal velocity at the ranges you intend on shooting your game. A 168 Berger vs. a 180 may have a higher terminal velocity at say 800 yards which might make a difference in the performance of the bullet to include expansion and hydraulic shock. If you are shooting only mule deer and aoudad between 500-800 yards there is no need to move to the .30 caliber cartridges. Any .284/7mm with 30-06 and up powder capacity will work. I think the 7SAUM is a dandy!

But I also wouldn't rule out a 6.5 with a similar case capacity. Take a look at a 140 Berger 6.5 pushed at 3200. I believe Berger recommends keeping impact velocities below 3200 fps, so starting at the top end makes sense to me for hunting applications. I am not sure at what velocity the Berger will fail to expand but I like to keep terminal velocities near 2000 fps and higher for peace of mind.

The last three mule deer bucks I have taken have been at 622, 50, and 705 yards respectively. All were shot with a 25-06 Ackley. The buck at 622 with a Nosler 110 Accubond with muzzle velocity at 3450; broke the near shoulder and exited behind the far shoulder. The next one at 50 yards was shot with a Berger 115 VLD started at 3420 fps. The deer was quartering away and the bullet took him in the middle of the ribcage and VAPORIZED the near side lung. There were no visible bits of lung tissue! It just disappeared! The far side lung was perfectly intact. The buck went about 12 feet stumbling all the way. I wouldn't recommend the Berger at that speed for hunting in the brush.

The buck at 705 was also with the Berger 115 at 3420. The buck was almost perfectly broadside. The bullet entered just behind the middle of the ribs and exited with a golf ball size hole three ribs in from the rear of the ribcage. He went about 20-25 yards.

The first and last deer described above were full grown mature Montana mule deer. The one at 50 yards was probably 2 1/2 years old.

 

[XTR]

It isn't new or sexy but the 7mRM would do what you want on any day of the week. Yea, it's less efficient and you have to use a little more powder per FPS but there are components everywhere, and if you ever carry it on a trip and your bullets don't get there you can go to any place with center fire rifle cartridges and get something to shoot. I almost never shoot anything factory loaded but believe it or not they will kill deer. You don't have to form anything, and once you do get your brass once fired you can head space off of the shoulder and forget about the belt.

 

[wapiti25]

7mm Rem Mag with 168 Berger hunting bullet will do what you want. My hunting rifle chrono's at 3050 ft/sec. 25" barrel 8.5 lbs ready to hunt. Shoots 3" at 500 yds. Look at the numbers. I shot a big bull moose in Colo this year and my buddy killed a bull moose in Wy @ 514 yds, Bang-Flop one shot.