6XC differences
- Thread starter SeabeeKen
- Start date
KMart
Gold $$ Contributor
It would take a novel to get in all the changes made in the 6XC since its inception. You have down the quick and dirty of the changes. The 6XC-II will be your best bet for a smooth operating rifle. Just make sure that your freebore length and diameter is what you want and need.
And yet I run Norma in a 15 year old reamer design with Tubb dies in a Tubb 2000 rifle no problem, not even in rapid fire.
A buddy with the same set up as me had to neck turn the new Peterson brass to make it work. It apparently wants a 278 neck.
Pick your brass and design around that, I guess.
A buddy with the same set up as me had to neck turn the new Peterson brass to make it work. It apparently wants a 278 neck.
Pick your brass and design around that, I guess.
I'd go either way but take a good look at the 6 Creedmoor
and weigh the options versus the two.
I also run the "old" 22-250 reamer print with Norma brass with no side effects. If I recall, Mr.Tubb says not to run the XCII version as it's not his design. And there was a bad batch of brass on the market but todays Peterson should be good to go.
Dan
P.S. You can actually call Dave Tubb and talk to him yourself. He runs a facebook page for the XC family of cartridges and has a phone number available.
Dan
P.S. You can actually call Dave Tubb and talk to him yourself. He runs a facebook page for the XC family of cartridges and has a phone number available.
I have been shooting the 6XC since 2004. I use Tubbs reamer and 22-250 brass. Some of my best scores have been fired shooting brass for the first time.
rijndael
Silver $$ Contributor
What's the base diameter for the old vs new?
Mine is .4712" and I'm using Norma Brass.
Not sure what the new print is but here's mine.
This is Mr. Tubbs post right from his xc face book page:
6XC Writeup
Putting all of this together so it is easier to read and to help others understand. I shoot the original 6xc. Not the 6xcII- not my design.
Strictly my opinion and what works for me but here is what I use for original 6xc.
I do know people successfully using .140 freebore for 115s. That being said,
For 6xc reamer I use a .278 chamber neck diameter .160 freebore (straight section) and 1.5 degree lead.
The reason I use a .278 neck is it allows the bullet to center itself more easily and the carbon buildup isn’t an issue after several rounds. I also don’t want to neck turn anything.
Dave mansion makes the reamers for the 6xc. Just double check with him on those dimensions listed above. His phone number is 810-953-0732.
david@mansonreamers.com
I also have reamers with those specs for sale from Superior Shooting Systems from time to time.
www.davidtubb.com
2.780” is close OAL measurement for a new chamber.
I like to try shooting 115 DTACs with a either a .010” to .020” jump or .010” seated into the rifling.
My load is 39.5 grains of H4350 using the coated DTAC 115s achieving velocity of 2950fps
I’ve had great success shooting the DTACs jumping .010 and touching the lands
I use norma or Peterson brass and the Tubb 6xc sizing dies from superior shooting systems and have had no problems in the many years I have shot the 6xc. Peterson brass purchased from Superior Shooting Systems has been quality controlled to my specifications.
Use a thin layer of imperial sizing wax on the neck and body when reloading brass
I also use Schneider barrel 1:7 twist 5P rifling. At least 26 inches if not longer
Primers for
6XC
LRP—S&B
SRP — Rem 7 1/2
Common questions: With the .160 freebore, can you still run the 105’s & 107’s and still hit the lands?
Answer: Yes - you can hit the lands. When using a 107 gr bullet it will be contained by approx 2/3 of the case neck.
This part is written to provide further insight to the 6xc. First off -- I designed the 6XC cartridge so I speak with authority--
I recommend using a .278" neck diameter -- .160" lead (straight section) and a 1 1/2 degree lead.. this is designed for a 115 DTAC RBT bullet.. these dimensions will also allow the user to shoot 105/107 grains bullets and still employ approximately 2/3 of the 6XC neck length for the lighter weight bullet support.
A piece of new Norma 6XC or Peterson 6XC brass is designed to have a .468" cartridge base diameter..
The back of a 6XC chamber is .470"
The base of a piece of fired 6XC brass RESIZED using the A7 tool steel die from Superior Shooting Systems measurers .469" or a few ten thousands less when resized. The 6XC Norma/Peterson is effectively small base sized leaving clearance between the outside diameter of the resized case and the chamber of your rifle. I recommend you small base and full length resize ALL cases no matter what the caliber.
The TUBB® resize die also uses interchangeable integral neck shoulder bushings which COMPLETELY resize the neck and set back the shoulder. ALL other 6XC resize dies, which all came to life after I invented the 6xc , use just an interchangeable neck bushing, leave a portion at the bottom of the neck unsized.
Here is the rub -- the Superior Shooting Systems resize die has been around since about 2005 and works without peers.. ALL the others came along at a later date... to my knowledge NONE of them are designed to small base size a piece of fired 6XC brass..(In my opinion this is typical of commercial die makers).
When you don’t size the base with enough reduction in diameter then there isn’t enough clearance for the brass to expand/contract when fired. It is basically all but forced into a your rifles' chamber base and has inadequate room to expand (and contract) when fired, hence the sticky bolt lift. The base of the case drags against the chamber wall when the bolt is lifted..
The 6XC is a CIP case (European SAAMI).. it is a very popular case in Europe.
6XC holds title to most all of the NRA Across the Course and Long-Range records. Other similar cartridges use several grains more powder to achieve the same velocities. A 6XC = 6X48mm.
6XC Peterson brass using a small rifle primer will be a very good alternative for those shooters looking for a cartridge emulating a 6x47mm or a 6mm Dasher.
Common questions: With the .160” freebore, can you still run the 105’s & 108’s and still hit the lands?
Answer: Yes - you can still seat the bullet into the lands. A 107gr bullet will be contained by approximately .230” of the remaining case neck in a new barrel.
Question: What is the difference between the TUBB® 6xc Redding die set and the Redding bushing full-length sizing set?
The TUBB® 6xc resizing die is set up for small basing and full length resizing in one die. Redding has a full-length resizing die and then a separate body die for small base sizing.
Question: Why am I getting donuts with Norma brass?
You are seating the bullet too far into the case neck.
I never seat the full diameter at the base of the bullet into or past the neck/ shoulder junction. Therefore, the constriction portion of a case (where donuts occur if not loaded properly) has no issue with bullet seating pressures. You can shoot a 115 DTAC in a short action magazine box that is 2.85” long with a 6XC cartridge length approaching 2.80” Over All Length. All bottle neck cartridges exhibit various degrees of constriction at the neck shoulder junction. Just remember: Don't seat your bullets so far in-Require your gunsmith to use a reamer with adequate straight section so you won’t be forced into seating the bullet short of optimum seating length.
Please keep in mind that if you are using brass other than Peterson or Norma with the TUBB® 6XC dies that it may not work properly. The TUBB® 6XC dies were designed for use with the CIP 6XC, not the 6XC II. Peterson and Norma 6XC brass are designed to work in CIP 6XC chambers and therefore can be used with TUBB® 6XC dies.
Unfortunately, Alpha Munitions and I were unable to come to an agreement therefore I was not involved in their 6mm brass development.
If you fire a case in a 6XCII chamber and then resize using my TUBB A7 tool steel resize die you will likely be shaving brass off of the last 1⁄2” of the base of the case.
Alpha 6XC Brass is not designed to work in an original 6XC chamber. It is designed for the 6xc 2 which has different dimensions and not my design. This is stated on their website when one clicks on alpha 6xc brass under “description”. (Update: I have been told that if one has brand new alpha 6xc brass and runs the new brass through my TUBB® 6xc resize die before firing in an original 6xc chamber it should work. I have not tried this myself since I only use Norma or Peterson brass.)
Please do not assume the reamer print posted on the alpha brass website for 6xc is my design because it has my name on it. It is not my reamer print. (update: after sending a letter explaining the confusion my name has been taken off of their reamer print)
There seems to be a lot of confusion on the web and I hope this post helps.
Manson 6XC print I use shown below.
FYI —Tolerance ranges on diameter can be used .001” larger per drawing
6XC reamer with my specs
www.davidtubb.com
Brass
www.davidtubb.com
6xc Hornady case gauge
www.davidtubb.com
Seating die
www.davidtubb.com
Resize die
www.davidtubb.com
115 gr DTAC bullets
www.davidtubb.com
6xc Versus 6XC 2 discussion
6XC Writeup
Putting all of this together so it is easier to read and to help others understand. I shoot the original 6xc. Not the 6xcII- not my design.
Strictly my opinion and what works for me but here is what I use for original 6xc.
I do know people successfully using .140 freebore for 115s. That being said,
For 6xc reamer I use a .278 chamber neck diameter .160 freebore (straight section) and 1.5 degree lead.
The reason I use a .278 neck is it allows the bullet to center itself more easily and the carbon buildup isn’t an issue after several rounds. I also don’t want to neck turn anything.
Dave mansion makes the reamers for the 6xc. Just double check with him on those dimensions listed above. His phone number is 810-953-0732.
david@mansonreamers.com
I also have reamers with those specs for sale from Superior Shooting Systems from time to time.
Search - Reamer
www.davidtubb.com
2.780” is close OAL measurement for a new chamber.
I like to try shooting 115 DTACs with a either a .010” to .020” jump or .010” seated into the rifling.
My load is 39.5 grains of H4350 using the coated DTAC 115s achieving velocity of 2950fps
I’ve had great success shooting the DTACs jumping .010 and touching the lands
I use norma or Peterson brass and the Tubb 6xc sizing dies from superior shooting systems and have had no problems in the many years I have shot the 6xc. Peterson brass purchased from Superior Shooting Systems has been quality controlled to my specifications.
Use a thin layer of imperial sizing wax on the neck and body when reloading brass
I also use Schneider barrel 1:7 twist 5P rifling. At least 26 inches if not longer
Primers for
6XC
LRP—S&B
SRP — Rem 7 1/2
Common questions: With the .160 freebore, can you still run the 105’s & 107’s and still hit the lands?
Answer: Yes - you can hit the lands. When using a 107 gr bullet it will be contained by approx 2/3 of the case neck.
This part is written to provide further insight to the 6xc. First off -- I designed the 6XC cartridge so I speak with authority--
I recommend using a .278" neck diameter -- .160" lead (straight section) and a 1 1/2 degree lead.. this is designed for a 115 DTAC RBT bullet.. these dimensions will also allow the user to shoot 105/107 grains bullets and still employ approximately 2/3 of the 6XC neck length for the lighter weight bullet support.
A piece of new Norma 6XC or Peterson 6XC brass is designed to have a .468" cartridge base diameter..
The back of a 6XC chamber is .470"
The base of a piece of fired 6XC brass RESIZED using the A7 tool steel die from Superior Shooting Systems measurers .469" or a few ten thousands less when resized. The 6XC Norma/Peterson is effectively small base sized leaving clearance between the outside diameter of the resized case and the chamber of your rifle. I recommend you small base and full length resize ALL cases no matter what the caliber.
The TUBB® resize die also uses interchangeable integral neck shoulder bushings which COMPLETELY resize the neck and set back the shoulder. ALL other 6XC resize dies, which all came to life after I invented the 6xc , use just an interchangeable neck bushing, leave a portion at the bottom of the neck unsized.
Here is the rub -- the Superior Shooting Systems resize die has been around since about 2005 and works without peers.. ALL the others came along at a later date... to my knowledge NONE of them are designed to small base size a piece of fired 6XC brass..(In my opinion this is typical of commercial die makers).
When you don’t size the base with enough reduction in diameter then there isn’t enough clearance for the brass to expand/contract when fired. It is basically all but forced into a your rifles' chamber base and has inadequate room to expand (and contract) when fired, hence the sticky bolt lift. The base of the case drags against the chamber wall when the bolt is lifted..
The 6XC is a CIP case (European SAAMI).. it is a very popular case in Europe.
6XC holds title to most all of the NRA Across the Course and Long-Range records. Other similar cartridges use several grains more powder to achieve the same velocities. A 6XC = 6X48mm.
6XC Peterson brass using a small rifle primer will be a very good alternative for those shooters looking for a cartridge emulating a 6x47mm or a 6mm Dasher.
Common questions: With the .160” freebore, can you still run the 105’s & 108’s and still hit the lands?
Answer: Yes - you can still seat the bullet into the lands. A 107gr bullet will be contained by approximately .230” of the remaining case neck in a new barrel.
Question: What is the difference between the TUBB® 6xc Redding die set and the Redding bushing full-length sizing set?
The TUBB® 6xc resizing die is set up for small basing and full length resizing in one die. Redding has a full-length resizing die and then a separate body die for small base sizing.
Question: Why am I getting donuts with Norma brass?
You are seating the bullet too far into the case neck.
I never seat the full diameter at the base of the bullet into or past the neck/ shoulder junction. Therefore, the constriction portion of a case (where donuts occur if not loaded properly) has no issue with bullet seating pressures. You can shoot a 115 DTAC in a short action magazine box that is 2.85” long with a 6XC cartridge length approaching 2.80” Over All Length. All bottle neck cartridges exhibit various degrees of constriction at the neck shoulder junction. Just remember: Don't seat your bullets so far in-Require your gunsmith to use a reamer with adequate straight section so you won’t be forced into seating the bullet short of optimum seating length.
Please keep in mind that if you are using brass other than Peterson or Norma with the TUBB® 6XC dies that it may not work properly. The TUBB® 6XC dies were designed for use with the CIP 6XC, not the 6XC II. Peterson and Norma 6XC brass are designed to work in CIP 6XC chambers and therefore can be used with TUBB® 6XC dies.
Unfortunately, Alpha Munitions and I were unable to come to an agreement therefore I was not involved in their 6mm brass development.
If you fire a case in a 6XCII chamber and then resize using my TUBB A7 tool steel resize die you will likely be shaving brass off of the last 1⁄2” of the base of the case.
Alpha 6XC Brass is not designed to work in an original 6XC chamber. It is designed for the 6xc 2 which has different dimensions and not my design. This is stated on their website when one clicks on alpha 6xc brass under “description”. (Update: I have been told that if one has brand new alpha 6xc brass and runs the new brass through my TUBB® 6xc resize die before firing in an original 6xc chamber it should work. I have not tried this myself since I only use Norma or Peterson brass.)
Please do not assume the reamer print posted on the alpha brass website for 6xc is my design because it has my name on it. It is not my reamer print. (update: after sending a letter explaining the confusion my name has been taken off of their reamer print)
There seems to be a lot of confusion on the web and I hope this post helps.
Manson 6XC print I use shown below.
FYI —Tolerance ranges on diameter can be used .001” larger per drawing
6XC reamer with my specs
Search - Reamer
www.davidtubb.com
Brass
Search - Brass
www.davidtubb.com
6xc Hornady case gauge
6XC Hornady Case Gauge
www.davidtubb.com
Seating die
Search - die
www.davidtubb.com
Resize die
Tubb 6XC FL Custom Sizing Die
The Tubb 6XC FL Custom Sizing Die from David Tubb and Superior Shooting Systems is an excellent, custom die that has several advantages over conventional neck bushing style dies.
www.davidtubb.com
115 gr DTAC bullets
Search - Dtac
www.davidtubb.com
6xc Versus 6XC 2 discussion
Hengehold
Silver $$ Contributor
I have shot several barrels in 6XC and it is a very accurate cartridge. However, the numerous comments in this thread illustrate that there is a lot of room for confusion with this cartridge.
If I were starting over again then I would go with 6mm-Creedmoor since it is standardized and you don’t have to worry about the reamer/brass/sizing die compatibility issues.
Ironman308
Gold $$ Contributor
Your gunsmith knows his reamer. He will be able to give good advise as to what shoots out of his reamer and barrel twist. David Tubb came up with a great design that has changed over the years as have others he has come up with. There has been enough time since the inception that others shooters and gunsmiths have had the opportunity to modify it slightly to meet their needs.
urbanrifleman
Site $$ Sponsor
There is no confusion. Tubb chamber, Tubb brass, Tubb sizing die.
I sell lots of Tubb chambers and I stock the Wilson sizer and it says TUBB on it.
Much Ado about nothing. I think.
One of the best reasons to shoot 6XC is the availability of David Tubb's incredible sizing die. It is an exquisite design. Make things easy on yourself. Manson reamer with Tubb specs, Tubb sizing and seater dies and Peterson brass and coated DTAC 115 RBT bullets. Use a Sinclair Gen. 2 expander with 21st Century expander mandrels. My T2K shoots .2 MOA all day every day and twice on Sunday off of a bipod and cheap rear bag.
Hengehold
Silver $$ Contributor
Thank you for your response. Your point is taken…IF the correct brass/chamber/dies are used there are no issues. My point is that with the 6mm-Creedmoor every brand of brass will work with every brand of dies and all unmodified reamers. Dimensionally they are virtually identical cartridges so why not go with the one that works without caveats?
The 6XC cartridge guide found on the main site discussed the undesirable effects of using the Tubb dies (resize all the way to the base) which is the over working of the brass and relatively short life the brass will have as a result. With Peterson brass costing almost $1 each now, I believe that brass longevity is important to most people.
Last edited:
rijndael
Silver $$ Contributor
I'm using a Tubb die and Norma brass, I'm at 10 firings and counting.
Hengehold
Silver $$ Contributor
Excellent, that sounds like reasonable brass life to me. I would be happy with 10 reloads.
Are you using the sizing die that you purchased from David Tubb directly or is it the Wilson die that Urbanrifleman sells?
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