6x41ARP(6.8SPC necked dn to 6mm) allows 95smk from mag

[constructor]

The goal was to be able to use the 95 SMK from the mag, case shortened to 1. 50, bottom of the shoulder held at same location but changed to 30 degree. 3000fps from a 28" barrel with 5 different powders looks pretty good. It's a match chamber for now with a .276 no turn neck using SSA small primer 6.8 brass.
6x41 on left, 6.8 on rt
ETA-Just to keep the hackles down, it was not intended to be a new HP or BR cartridge just something that will shoot longer 6mm bullets from the mag and feed well from standard high capacity PRI 6.8 mags with no fireforming required. hunting, varmint, tactical or whatever. I started with a 28" that will be cut off in 2" increments to determine the most efficient or practical length for whatever use. The best thing about America, the right to choose.

 

[RonS]

constructor, check with John Holliger at White Oak Armament if he can't help you........

 

[constructor]

The 6 WOA will not shoot 95SMKs from the mag and that was the whole reason I made this.

 

[15Tango]

I love wildcats but I gotta be that guy . . . Robert Whitley's 6MM ArT40 launches a 105 at 3000 FPS, I think the 95s he's getting around 3100.

Wayne

 

[constructor]

I love wildcats but I gotta be that guy . . . Robert Whitley's 6MM ArT40 launches a 105 at 3000 FPS, I think the 95s he's getting around 3100.

Wayne

I build 6BRs and 6BRXs in AR15s that are 200fps faster than the turbo but try to get the mil to take a look at a case with a 40 degree shoulder for use in a AR or feed from the belt of a SAW. ;D They are testing 6.8 SAWS so we already know they feed.

 

[rcw3]

For me it's always been all about consistent accuracy - velocity is great - but velocity without consistent accuracy equates to nothing but a blaster gun!

Crowing that the BRX in an AR-15 platform can supposedly get 200 fps more than a Turbo 40 is just chest thumping that is not meaningful at all and skirts the real issue of what an AR-15 platform can effectively handle and still stay consistently accurate.

I guarantee I can take a Turbo 40 in one of my AR's and match it toe to toe against any BRX in an AR-15 at 600 yards in something like a 3 x 600 yard match, and at the end of the day it will come out even or on top, plus I have working factory magazines for the Turbo 40.

Robert Whitley
www.6mmAR.com

 

[15Tango]

It's just silly to me for the military to be taking the 6.8 SPC seriously for anything other than close quarters. The .277 doesn't offer much in external ballistics over the .224 bullets let alone over .243, .264 or .284". Also take into consideration that it's a long and skinny cartridge, when you load heavy bullets into it for the AR15/M16 family you lose a great deal of powder capacity whereas the other alternative cartridges out there based on the .220 Russian family don't suffer from that issue as much. The 6.5 Grendel seems like the perfect match across the board from close quarters to SDM. Oh well, it's the same military that's just now getting around to replacing the .308 Win. for their sniper rifles.

From what I've seen the 6BRX drives the 105/107s at about the same velocity as the T40 - 3000 FPS +/- 50 FPS. Out of a bolt gun I could see cramming another 100-200 FPS out of the BRX but Bob Crone said he's getting 3033 FPS out of a 107 out of bolt. Another 200 FPS on top of that in an AR15?

Robert,

Are you feeding from out of the box 6.5 Grendel C-Products magazines with the T40?

Wayne

 

[constructor]

It's just silly to me for the military to be taking the 6.8 SPC seriously for anything other than close quarters. The .277 doesn't offer much in external ballistics over the .224 bullets let alone over .243, .264 or .284". Also take into consideration that it's a long and skinny cartridge, when you load heavy bullets into it for the AR15/M16 family you lose a great deal of powder capacity whereas the other alternative cartridges out there based on the .220 Russian family don't suffer from that issue as much. The 6.5 Grendel seems like the perfect match across the board from close quarters to SDM. Oh well, it's the same military that's just now getting around to replacing the .308 Win. for their sniper rifles.

From what I've seen the 6BRX drives the 105/107s at about the same velocity as the T40 - 3000 FPS +/- 50 FPS. Out of a bolt gun I could see cramming another 100-200 FPS out of the BRX but Bob Crone said he's getting 3033 FPS out of a 107 out of bolt. Another 200 FPS on top of that in an AR15?

Robert,

Are you feeding from out of the box 6.5 Grendel C-Products magazines with the T40?

Wayne

This wasn't about the 6.8, the mil was looking at it as a CQB cartridge and may be still. I don't recall anyone saying anything about the 6.8 and long range except you.
I started playing with the 6.8 necked down to 6mm because there are better bullets with higher BCs. It isn't a high power rig or a bench gun but it will shoot the 95gr SMK from the mag. and feed from SAW belts, that's why I wanted to do it, after all Robert says it's about accuracy not velocity so crowing about an extra 200fps that the turbo 40 gets is just "chest thumping" ;D

Robert, do you think you are the only person in the country that can get a 6mm up to a decent velocity and shoot consistently accurate too? You may get your chance to shoot beside one of these 6BRXs and a few 6BRs too and I didn't need to have new mags made, they feed just fine from the ones being used. We'll see what the scores say this next year and how many change over to the 6BR, seems like many guys are shooting bolt rigs anyway and can shoot what ever they want. A lot more Sniper/tactical shooters are trying the AR platform though, it may help them in timed events. You know how it is, the grass is always greener on the other side, shooters try what ever they need to to get an edge and there is no doubt the 6BR is plenty accurate.

 

[rcw3]

The reality is, a semi automatic AR-15 (or AR-10) platform can only be pushed so hard and stay consistently accurate. Consistent accuracy to me is .5 MOA or better for 20 plus shots in a row one right after another with no break (i.e. not just a 5 shot group here or there). The Turbo 40 can push the platform right about to its fullest extent it can handle in that regard and it is perfectly balanced to do that (i.e. not too big, not to small, right about optimum).

Using the case capacity logic I read on this thread, the AR-15 243 WSSM's that have been out for a while should be able to blow away the Turbo 40 and the 6mm BRX and all other smaller capacity 6mm cartridges, but they cannot. The 243 WSSM's have been out for years and you never see any used in highpower matches or 3 x 600 matches. Yes, they have the case capacity to push bullets much faster, but if you try that your AR-15 becomes a blaster gun and .5 MOA consistent accuracy is not there.

The BRX is a great little cartridge, I have worked with it quite a bit lately, but it's not a 200 fps faster cartridge than a Turbo 40, and in truth, you cannot use the extra capacity in an AR-15 platform to get more consistent accuracy than you can get with a Turbo 40. If you want to get another "toy" and play with it and have some fun doing that - great - but if you are thinking you are going to be the king of the range with your AR-15 chambered in that - you may be in for some disappointment (especially as to consistently accurate velocity).

I have built up test uppers in the 6mmBR, BRX, and Dasher as well but I would not build them up for customers because of issues I see with them.

Robert Whitley
www.6mmAR.com

 

[constructor]

Did you say you were having issues with the tubo 40 feeding but are working on new mags?
When will those be available assuming they will fix the Grendel/264 issues as well?
Also did you use BRATs system with their Olympic wssm type bolt on the 6mmBR uppers you have "built"?
The one really good thing about a 6BR is no fireforming with the same capacity as the Turbo 40, no special dies and it's pretty hard to argu that the 6mmBR isnt accurate.

 

[15Tango]

What are these Grendel feeding issues? Mine has ran perfect from day one, even while forming brass from 7.62X39. Maybe I'm lucky or something.

 

[rcw3]

Did you say you were having issues with the tubo 40 feeding but are working on new mags?
. . . .

Nope - the factory type magazines I have and sell for the Turbo 40 (10 and 15 round mags) work great! Plenty of customers using them and virtually no complaints, issues or returned magazines.

The ones I was experimenting with and working on were for the 6BR, BRX and Dasher uppers - and that's still one of the issues. The BRAT 6mmBR mags are o.k. for the Olympic Parts kits but are temperamental in a conventional 1" nominal diameter side to side feed extension set up (i.e. magazine sits too low and cannot be raised without at lot of complicated work on the magazine - been there, done that - plus the BRAT mags are center feed and are not reliable with set ups with a side to side feed barrel extension - like yours and the ones I built up). Using PRI mags has its own set of issues (some work, some don't, some work o.k. with a limited number of rounds in them, etc. - been there - done that too).

Robert

 

[constructor]

6BRX- 95SMK at 3180fps 22" barrel
function and mag video
This is not a BRAT rifle or an OLY system.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=je3ulQuG3S0

Oh, I just read this statement above and figured you were making new mags.
"plus I have working factory magazines for the Turbo 40."
I get it, you are using Grendel mags made by C Products.

 

[constructor]

What are these Grendel feeding issues? Mine has ran perfect from day one, even while forming brass from 7.62X39. Maybe I'm lucky or something.

Oh there's all kinds of threads on the Grendel forum about feeding issues and mags, here's one thread. Glad you guys stopped by and gave me the oportunity to talk about the 6BR and BRX, can't ever have too many options. ;D
http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7162

edited to ad " 's "

 

[rcw3]

Constructor

Your speculations regarding the Turbo 40 magazines we inventory and sell to our customers is just speculation on your part. The point is, we sell working magazines for the uppers we make that we guarantee will work with them.

The video showing a PRI Gen 1 magazine used in an AR-15 shooting BRX cartridges is cool, but it's only one string, out of one rifle, and out of one magazine. PRI's tooling for the PRI Gen 1 magazines wore to the point that they pretty much stopped making the Gen 1 magazines (i.e. they don't even have them shown on their website anymore). I have a bunch of the older Gen 1 PRI 6.8 SPC mags (i.e. with a quick do-it-yourself follower modification they work great with the 6mmAR and Turbo 40) but I did not have acceptable results with them feeding 6BR/BRX cartridges. Can I get a couple of the Gen 1 PRI's to work reasonably well with the 6BR/BRX - yes - but I would not try to suggest to a customer that they are "plug and play" reliable magazines out of the wrapper (if you can find them to buy).

Robert

 

[constructor]

Constructor

Your speculations regarding the Turbo 40 magazines we inventory and sell to our customers is just speculation on your part. The point is, we sell working magazines for the uppers we make that we guarantee will work with them.

The video showing a PRI Gen 1 magazine used in an AR-15 shooting BRX cartridges is cool, but it's only one string, out of one rifle, and out of one magazine. PRI's tooling for the PRI Gen 1 magazines wore to the point that they pretty much stopped making the Gen 1 magazines (i.e. they don't even have them shown on their website anymore). I have a bunch of the older Gen 1 PRI 6.8 SPC mags (i.e. with a quick do-it-yourself follower modification they work great with the 6mmAR and Turbo 40) but I did not have acceptable results with them feeding 6BR/BRX cartridges. Can I get a couple of the Gen 1 PRI's to work reasonably well with the 6BR/BRX - yes - but I would not try to suggest to a customer that they are "plug and play" reliable magazines out of the wrapper (if you can find them to buy).

Robert

Robert I believe most here know you well enough to know you bring up stuff like this to try to throw a shadow on products that may be a little competition to you. Remember on the highpower forum how you shot down the idea of a 6BR and BRX out of an AR on the forum and then a week or 2 later you called and wanted to start building them to sell?
You can cast all the doubt you want, there are enough of these out on the market that guys are going to start talking and others see them work. You can't stop progression. Your gunsmith makes good barrels for you, they shoot well and people have good results that should be able to speak for themselves, why don't you leave it at that and leave the lawyer doubt casting tricks to the courtroom.

 

[15Tango]

From my point of view yourself and Robert both have a good thing going with your 6BR and 6 T40 AR15s, certainly better than anything else out there. If it weren't for variety we'd all be shooting .30-06 Springfields.

Wayne

 

[rcw3]

Constructor

I am not going to go "personal", as the postings now seem to be going.

What I said was factually true and correct on this thread, and based on actual testing.

Best of luck to you and your business.

Robert Whitley

 

[constructor]

Constructor

I am not going to go "personal", as the postings now seem to be going.

What I said was factually true and correct on this thread, and based on actual testing.

Best of luck to you and your business.

Robert Whitley

I think you went personal with your "chest thumping" comment in your very first post, so cast that "personal" shadow back on yourself.
The 6x41 that this thread was started about was aimed more at tactical shooters shooting from the mag, not HP or benchrest, it is not in the same group of customers you target. It has less expensive brass so they don't worry if they loose 20 pieces in the grass. Most sniper/tactical guys shoot bolt guns but the game is changing. Will any new cat do something no other cat has ever done? I doubt it, they are just recycled for different applications.