6PPC Questions

[Webphut]

For those of you like myself that read several different forums and recognize this, its because I am copying and pasting this from another forum I posted it on.

I have been exploring loads for my Sako 6mm PPC the last few weeks on the 100 yard line. All the necks are turned down to .260". The Chamber neck diameter is .262".

So far the rifle shoots the tightest groups loaded with 24.5 grains of RL-7 behind a 70 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip, and in front of CCI BR-4 primers. I am using RCBS standard full length reloading die set. The group size, though not impressive for a 6mm PPC, is a 3/8" 5 shot group. It is also the only group thus far to not have a flyer outside the group.

There are five more powders I have yet to try in the Nosler reload data book still. I have only used Nosler bullets thus far, but I will move onto other brands as I progress. As for the C.O.L. to ogive. it is 1.700". If I measured correctly using the hornady lock n load measuring tool, I am holding .010" off the lands, . I full length resize for each reloading and this seems to keep the bolt closing easily.

Now after three reloads, I am seeing a doughnut around the outside of the necks on some of my brass. Is this because I'm full length resizing for each reload?

On several websites, I have read that I can load a bullet into an empty case partially, chamber the cartridge, close the bolt to fully seat the bullet, and measure for C.O.L. to ogive. Is this correct or better yet, an accurate method? I have not done this, but wanted to hear from the experienced re-loaders before attempting this.

As you gathered from the above information, I am not using bushing dies yet, but when do I use the bushing die during the sequence of reloading? Do I full length resize and follow up with the bushing die or is it used after the bullet is seated?

As for turning necks, what is more important, the thickness of the neck being .0085" or the .002: clearance from neck to chamber? Chamber neck is .262". I notice even though the brass is .260", the thickness is not exactly the same all the way around the necks. Some vary from .0095" to .0075" thickness as I walk around the neck measuring.

 

[RussellJ]

For those of you like myself that read several different forums and recognize this, its because I am copying and pasting this from another forum I posted it on.

I have been exploring loads for my Sako 6mm PPC the last few weeks on the 100 yard line. All the necks are turned down to .260". The Chamber neck diameter is .262".

So far the rifle shoots the tightest groups loaded with 24.5 grains of RL-7 behind a 70 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip, and in front of CCI BR-4 primers. I am using RCBS standard full length reloading die set. The group size, though not impressive for a 6mm PPC, is a 3/8" 5 shot group. It is also the only group thus far to not have a flyer outside the group.

There are five more powders I have yet to try in the Nosler reload data book still. I have only used Nosler bullets thus far, but I will move onto other brands as I progress. As for the C.O.L. to ogive. it is 1.700". If I measured correctly using the hornady lock n load measuring tool, I am holding .010" off the lands, . I full length resize for each reloading and this seems to keep the bolt closing easily.

Now after three reloads, I am seeing a doughnut around the outside of the necks on some of my brass. Is this because I'm full length resizing for each reload?

On several websites, I have read that I can load a bullet into an empty case partially, chamber the cartridge, close the bolt to fully seat the bullet, and measure for C.O.L. to ogive. Is this correct or better yet, an accurate method? I have not done this, but wanted to hear from the experienced re-loaders before attempting this.

As you gathered from the above information, I am not using bushing dies yet, but when do I use the bushing die during the sequence of reloading? Do I full length resize and follow up with the bushing die or is it used after the bullet is seated?

As for turning necks, what is more important, the thickness of the neck being .0085" or the .002: clearance from neck to chamber? Chamber neck is .262". I notice even though the brass is .260", the thickness is not exactly the same all the way around the necks. Some vary from .0095" to .0075" thickness as I walk around the neck measuring.

Do yourself a favor, purchase Tony Boyer's book, The Book Of Rifle Accuracy.

 

[LHSmith]

Ditto. Another great book on the 6 PPC is "Extreme Rifle Accuracy" by Ratigan. Mike's explanation on how to read flags is worth the cost alone. Find the right die, learn how to read flags, get proven loads from other's with the Sako 6ppc's from this forum, read the books and those flyers will disappear.

 

[hrlincoln]

+1 on Tony's book...content addressing your questions primarily focuses on the 6PPC. Can't remember where I purchased my copy, but bulletcentral offers a pretty good package if you're interested.

https://bulletcentral.com/product/tony-boyers-gift-set/

 

[Webphut]

Well both suggested books are on the to my home. I went ahead and purchased them both. Hopefully they will be more interesting than the last book I purchased, it ws about ultra high vacuum and leak detection and spectrometry. Ohh boy it is thick in dust! LOL

 

[Webphut]

Well knowing there is a remedy for the fliers changes things then. If I figure out how to bring those one ought flyers closer to home, then I would be a happy camper.

 

[ebb]

Ditch the RL7 try VV133 or one of the new LT powders or H322. 65 or 68 grain bullets. When my Bergers are gone I am going to try some Barts bullets

 

[AckleymanII]

H-322 and LT 32 are excellent with the 70g, and I hope you will buy some 70g Speer tnt to try, they are awesome in how accurate they are. I shot about 26.8g-27.0f of h322 in my Sako with 70g years ago, smoked that barrel on dog towns with about 2500 hard rounds, but the leade was long on that factory rifle to begin with.

I would recommend that you seat those bullets on the lands, and move in .003 at a time, then start with .005 off if you are not shooting bug holes(highly unlikely).

N133 is hard on barrels.

In 1989, I met Gene Harwood who had been the NBRSA Director. Gene had around 150 or more sets of bullet making dies, and was an experimenter like few on the planet. Gene was not bashful about insisting that I try H335 in my 222's, 6PPC, and especially the 6 BR. H335 proved to be an amazing success with cci 450 primers in the 6ppc, and 7 1/2's in the 6 BR, accuracy in the extreme with hard to believe barrel life. Of course, match shooters will prefer LT32 in the 6ppc.

If you are just shooting for the fun of it and perhaps varmint shooting, AA2230 and H335 will give double the barrel life of H322(or more)(use cci 450 primers) with only up a tad bit of accuracy lost if any. I had 8000 rounds on my last Hart 6PPC barrel I replaced. This Hart barrel was on a Stolle Panda which I turned into a P. dog rifle. I shot it 2000 rounds on each p. dog trip. After each trip, I would adjust load for increased bore wear and seating depth change. At 8000 rounds and the barrel still agg'd in the high 2's for all ten, five shot groups while changing load and seating depth. I only cleaned every 300 rounds after the first 2000 rounds fired on this Hart barrel, fast lot# of H335, which was a mil surplus powder named 2230-S. At 10,000 rounds down the barrel, I put on a new barrel. We found a p. dog town that was 13 miles long and 3 miles wide, rarely ever shot because you had to cross a river in a 4WD. I hosed that hart barrel going 600 round shot strings in between cleanings and had to brush with JB to get the barrel clean at night. The barrel agg'd in the .375 area when I took it off, but the image through the bore scope was awful to say the least.

I used Bushing dies similar to what is now the Redding S dies, and full length sized only when necessary. Accuracy did not demand any kind of rocket science to shoot tiny groups, size the necks .0015-.002 and call it done. I used a Forster(Bonanza) neck sizer to bump my shoulders, but it would not touch the neck. I annealed the necks every 5th firing or so.

 

[ebb]

The guy that mentored me passed away a few years back. He insisted that I didn't know enough about loading for a BR rifle to shoot anything but H322. He said VV133 would drive me crazy trying to keep it tuned . Is the H335 going to be as easy to keep tuned as my H322 is? I think I have 3 lbs of H335.

 

[snert]

While I agree with reading the books and can hardly offer anything more that Boyer et al could and will say, I just got to thinking about how you are measuring your necks
?

If you are measuring your brass necks, loaded, with a caliper, and you are seeing a "donut", then what you are seeing is a neck that has been resized and then expanded by a bullet, and the donut is the "step-down" behind the bullet base to the resized measurement. Officially, that is not a "donut"...which is a different animal altogether.

IF,a nd only if what i just described is what you are saying, then I suggest you spend the time to also read about and look at photos of neck turning, measuring the thickness of brass with a ball or tube mic, etc. Once you wander thru that and really see what is being done, you will have a more complete picture of what people are talking about when they talk about seating a bullet using the lands (can't do it unless you have a very light neck tension) and besides once you do it, if you pull the case, you leave the bullet.

Just passing this along as you wait for the books.

Best,

Snert

 

[Frankr]

you also would be better off with .003 to .004 on the neck clearance. As others I would shoot some H33 or LT32
and get some Berger or Bart's bullets. Find a old BR shooter Hell if you lived close I would give you a hand full of bullets some bart's, Bergers, some hand made customs. enough of this and that powder to give you something to play with.
Also A FL bushing neck die and even just a Wilson neck die to play with. I would loan you one to play with.