6mm Hagar?
- Thread starter ALO
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rcw3
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As far as I know the cartridge is the brainchild of John Harrison and Sid Goodling, and it was designed to function out of an AR-15. My impressions, from the limited info I have on it, is that it works and shoots very well but making brass is a somewhat of a chore.
I have taken another route and have made a 6mm AR-15 cartridge up using a necked down 6.5 Grendel brass as the base case. Making brass is easy,neck it down to 6mm) and the Grendel brass is made by Lapua and is basically similar in quality to Lapua's 6mmBR Brass or their 220 Russian Brass,great stuff). The Grendel brass also has a small primer pocket and small flash hole, so the net result is a cartridge that is like a 6mm PPC on steriods. If you want more info see 6mmAR.com
Robert Whitley
I have taken another route and have made a 6mm AR-15 cartridge up using a necked down 6.5 Grendel brass as the base case. Making brass is easy,neck it down to 6mm) and the Grendel brass is made by Lapua and is basically similar in quality to Lapua's 6mmBR Brass or their 220 Russian Brass,great stuff). The Grendel brass also has a small primer pocket and small flash hole, so the net result is a cartridge that is like a 6mm PPC on steriods. If you want more info see 6mmAR.com
Robert Whitley
It's my understanding that commercially made 6mm HAGAR brass will be available by the end of November, and will have a small rifle primer pocket. Edited on 6/7/07: The original intended supplier of HAGAR brass didn't come through, and John is negotiating with another maker to try to get a supply made. My upper is complete and ready to run, as soon as I get a set of dies & form some brass while we're waiting on commercially made brass. Also, Redding is supposed to be making up 25 sets of dies for this cartridge. I believe both will be available from Harrison.
Edited on 6/7/07: The original intended supplier of HAGAR brass didn't come through, and John is negotiating with another maker to try to get a supply made. My upper is complete and ready to run, as soon as I get a set of dies & form some brass while we're waiting on commercially made brass.
Edited on 6/7/07: The original intended supplier of HAGAR brass didn't come through, and John is negotiating with another maker to try to get a supply made. My upper is complete and ready to run, as soon as I get a set of dies & form some brass while we're waiting on commercially made brass.
rcw3
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RickB
That is correct - I don't know anyone who is running any of the 105-108 gr bullets magazine length out of a Hagar, as it seems they would be way way back in the case and take up a lot of valuable powder capacity. The Berger 90's at mag length are pretty far back too, enough so that the front part of the bearing surface of the bullet is just about disappearing back into the mouth of the case. The 90's feed and shoot well mag length out of the Hagar, even though they are jumping a long way.
I have been lately working with the 6mmAR Turbo 40 degreee Improved cartridge - same powder capacity as a Hagar but has a short enough case so that you can run the 105-108 gr bullets magazine length for rapid sequences.
http://www.6mmar.com/6mmAR_Turbo_40_Improved.html
That is correct - I don't know anyone who is running any of the 105-108 gr bullets magazine length out of a Hagar, as it seems they would be way way back in the case and take up a lot of valuable powder capacity. The Berger 90's at mag length are pretty far back too, enough so that the front part of the bearing surface of the bullet is just about disappearing back into the mouth of the case. The 90's feed and shoot well mag length out of the Hagar, even though they are jumping a long way.
I have been lately working with the 6mmAR Turbo 40 degreee Improved cartridge - same powder capacity as a Hagar but has a short enough case so that you can run the 105-108 gr bullets magazine length for rapid sequences.
http://www.6mmar.com/6mmAR_Turbo_40_Improved.html
Robert,
I have been observing your 6mm AR/ARTurbo "from afar". Having good, readily available brass is certainly a big plus...just ask David about the trials and tribulations of trying to get what you want manufactured. I must admit that I was somewhat doubtful about getting a 40º shoulder to feed in an AR, and it obviously does or you would not have bothered with its development. One jam and you are done in rapid.
Cheers,
Rick
I have been observing your 6mm AR/ARTurbo "from afar". Having good, readily available brass is certainly a big plus...just ask David about the trials and tribulations of trying to get what you want manufactured. I must admit that I was somewhat doubtful about getting a 40º shoulder to feed in an AR, and it obviously does or you would not have bothered with its development. One jam and you are done in rapid.
Cheers,
Rick
rcw3
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RickB
While that was my initial concern when I made up the first Turbo 40 test upper, I have not seen any difference in feeding relibility with the 40 degree shoulder angle,vs a 30 degree angle) and I have a number of uppers I have tested, and a number of uppers are out in customer hands. When I observe and analyze how an AR feeds cases, it does not appear to me that the shouder of the case is really used to guide the bullet into the chamber, and frankly I think you could use an even sharper shoulder angle and it would not matter for feeding. Just my observations and opinions here, but it seems what makes contact for feeding is the corner at the junction of the shoulder and case wall. Manufacturers of brass have trouble making cases with 40 degree shoulder angles so that may be more why you don't see more cartridges and brass made like that.
Robert
While that was my initial concern when I made up the first Turbo 40 test upper, I have not seen any difference in feeding relibility with the 40 degree shoulder angle,vs a 30 degree angle) and I have a number of uppers I have tested, and a number of uppers are out in customer hands. When I observe and analyze how an AR feeds cases, it does not appear to me that the shouder of the case is really used to guide the bullet into the chamber, and frankly I think you could use an even sharper shoulder angle and it would not matter for feeding. Just my observations and opinions here, but it seems what makes contact for feeding is the corner at the junction of the shoulder and case wall. Manufacturers of brass have trouble making cases with 40 degree shoulder angles so that may be more why you don't see more cartridges and brass made like that.
Robert
rcw3 said:
I do not recall the source of the comment, and probably should not quote it if I did, but some years ago I recall being told that the loss rate,in manufacture) of cases with sharper shoulders than the typical 308 shoulder angle goes up very rapidly and so the manufacturers simply do not care for those cases. I was always suspicious that the manufacturers were simply reluctant to embrace change.
That was some years ago and I note that the manufacturers appear to be doing OK with 6 BR cases, 6.5x47, .284, 6.5x.284 and even 6.5 Grendel cases. ;-)
Regards,
Rick
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