6mm Creedmoore vs. 6mm SLR

[SHootSTraight22]

Hello, I'm interested in a rig that will shoot in a 3,200 - 3,230fps node no more or less.. Most I shoot with have developed loads shooting 3,100-3,150fps in their 6x47 Lapua's and 6mm Creedmoores but brass life sucks with Hornady brass and that's at the top end for the 6x47 Lapua cartridge all shooting the 105gr Hybrid. What I want is a slight advantage by getting 3,230fps accurately with 105gr Hybrids plus have 10 plus reloads for brass life.. I was thinking maybe sizing down 308 Palma brass to 6mm Creedmoore or 6mm SLR but also want to avoid neck turning.. Has anyone had any experience with these cartridges accurately shooting a 3,200-3,230 node??? Has anyone ever pushed these cartridges over 3,150fps with 105gr bullets and have discovered a common high node greater than 3,200fps?? Just like everyone has seen that shoots a 6.5x47 Lapua they all shoot 140gr Hybrids and H4350 at 2,700-2,750 and 2,800-2,850fps nodes, is their a common node above 3,200fps with the 6mm SLR and 6mm Creedmoore/using 105gr Hybrids/H4350 or Varget combo?? What about using "boron nitride coating" to help with a greater than 3,200fps node?? Help would be greatly appreciated.. Also how do you feel about using Lee Collet dies to step Lapua brass down to 6mm in hopes of ironing out any donuts??? Thank You

 

[SHootSTraight22]

Any tips??? A lot of people are interested in data collected shooting a 6mm Creedmoor with stronger/higher quality brass than Hornady.

 

[MOShooter]

The best velocity getting powder I've found with my 6SLR is RL26. I ran it up as hi as 3150 in a 24" barrel before I got pressure. It was the most accurate load I found but bolt got sticky when the temp came up. You might be able to get there in a 28-30" barrel.

 

[MOShooter]

Any tips??? A lot of people are interested in data collected shooting a 6mm Creedmoor with stronger/higher quality brass than Hornady.

I think most people who run the 6 creedmoor are tactical shooters. In that game you loose enough brass that you don't want to put a lot of time and money into it. Also most steel matches have a 3100-3150fps limit, so there's no need to for a hot rod.

 

[swd]

I don't think either of those cases have enough boiler room. For 3200+ you need to look at the 6CM (Competition Match) or the 243 Ackley. And a long barrel will be a big help.

 

[Bugholes]

243AI with 105s and magnum powder will get you in the node, which is 3230-3270

6creedmoor wants to run 3150, yes you can run it faster but I don't think that's where it wants to be

 

[NickB1075]

What about a 6mm-284? That should be more then enough and a hoot to shoot as well.

 

[Dgd6mm]

Hello, I'm interested in a rig that will shoot in a 3,200 - 3,230fps node no more or less.. Most I shoot with have developed loads shooting 3,100-3,150fps in their 6x47 Lapua's and 6mm Creedmoores but brass life sucks with Hornady brass and that's at the top end for the 6x47 Lapua cartridge all shooting the 105gr Hybrid. What I want is a slight advantage by getting 3,230fps accurately with 105gr Hybrids plus have 10 plus reloads for brass life.. I was thinking maybe sizing down 308 Palma brass to 6mm Creedmoore or 6mm SLR but also want to avoid neck turning.. Has anyone had any experience with these cartridges accurately shooting a 3,200-3,230 node??? Has anyone ever pushed these cartridges over 3,150fps with 105gr bullets and have discovered a common high node greater than 3,200fps?? Just like everyone has seen that shoots a 6.5x47 Lapua they all shoot 140gr Hybrids and H4350 at 2,700-2,750 and 2,800-2,850fps nodes, is their a common node above 3,200fps with the 6mm SLR and 6mm Creedmoore/using 105gr Hybrids/H4350 or Varget combo?? What about using "boron nitride coating" to help with a greater than 3,200fps node?? Help would be greatly appreciated.. Also how do you feel about using Lee Collet dies to step Lapua brass down to 6mm in hopes of ironing out any donuts??? Thank You

Has anyone ran a 6 SLR over 3200 fps, and if so what lenght barrel and powder do you use?

 

[Jtate]

Where are you tapped out with your 6mm Creedmoore, and what is your barrel length? What problems are you having with the hornady brass ? I can guess but I want to know your experience is after how many firings. You say you want to get 10 plus loads on a brass, how many are you getting now before it is trash. What primmer are you using? Also I would like to know your freebore dimension .

 

[SHootSTraight22]

Where are you tapped out with your 6mm Creedmoore, and what is your barrel length? What problems are you having with the hornady brass ? I can guess but I want to know your experience is after how many firings. You say you want to get 10 plus loads on a brass, how many are you getting now before it is trash. What primmer are you using? Also I would like to know your freebore dimension .

My experience with the 6mm Creedmoor is through friends who about push it to it's max. They all shoot .237 bore, .185-.195 freebore, H4350 @ around 41.5-42gr and get 3148fps... The .237 bore is very important I here and without it the velocity want be obtained, due to high pressure....(I don't understand the .190 freebore because the 6x47Lapua, 6SLR, and 6 Creedmoor all have the same neck shoulder an I thought .120 freebore was max for the longest projectiles,, I was recomended the .100 freebore for 105gr hybrids in 6x47Lapua) I was told that with these max tac. comp. loads they may get 4 reloads, but have heard a lot of complaints about loose pockets after 2 reloads.. I'm on my 12 reload on Lapua 6.5x47 brass with no end in sight!!! That's why I'm interested in forming a 6Creedmoor or 6SLR out of Palma 308 brass (for pressure.) Now, one trick to loose pockets is use TulAmmo primers or Wolf I know that ( Russian primers fit very tight.) I know all the top tactical comp guys are running 6x47L and 6mmCreedmoores at 3,110-3,150 from what I've been told.. That's max for the 6x47L but I feel the 6mmCreedmoore may have enough case capacity to find a 3,200fps node with small primer Lapua brass and H4350... Plus someone could always take that high pressure max load and coat with boron nitride to try to drop pressure some then add powder to try to achieve a higher node past 3,200fps.. Thoughts???

 

[SHootSTraight22]

The best velocity getting powder I've found with my 6SLR is RL26. I ran it up as hi as 3150 in a 24" barrel before I got pressure. It was the most accurate load I found but bolt got sticky when the temp came up. You might be able to get there in a 28-30" barrel.

I've always liked the 6SLR case but would like to see what it's really capable of with Palma brass (that is if palma brass is just as good as 6.5x47L brass or the small BR cases..) I know that case can do more than what people are posting (everyone's posting 3,100 area but smaller cases are getting that!!) I've seen the 6mm SMACK which is a 6.5L case necked to 6mm then Ackley Improved an it can get 3,300fps with 105gr... The strong case is the only reason plus Reloader 17 so shouldn't converting 308 Palma brass to 6mm Creed or 6mmSLR be the best thing since "butter" when it comes to finding a 3,200 plus node with the 105grHybrid?? I ran the data on Applied Ballistics and to be shooting a 6mm 105gr hybrid at 3,150fps is ashame since according to the program all the advantages start above 3,200fps... A 6.5 140gr hybrid would have to move 2,950fps plus to even be in the little 105gr pills league at that speed out to 1,200yds.. I was looking at hit probability for 1,200yds when doing this and the numbers say run 105grhybrid at 3,200 plus and 140gr hybrid at 2,950fps plus for that next leg up over the competition... Oh yea, pretend theirs no 3,150 fps speed limit here, just that everyone runs there...

 

[Dgd6mm]

most brass does not last when ran with high pressure.

 

[SHootSTraight22]

People run high pressure everyday with PPC/BR/and 6.5L brass.. That's why I'm interested in using Palma 308 Lapua brass for a 6SLR or 6Creed.. If Palma brass is as good as 6.5Lapua brass then it should last over 25 reloads with over 67,000 psi.. or whatever high is for my 6.5 Lapua..

 

[SHootSTraight22]

Just bump the shoulders .001-.002 max and replace primers with Russian primers when pocket get loser around 10 reloads.. It should be that simple if the Palma brass is as good as the 6.5Lapua for it's use... See??

 

[MOShooter]

I don't think you can form the 6SLR from Lapua brass with out getting a doughnut that needs to be turned out. Also not sure if the small primer with light the amount of slow burning powder needed to get the speed you want. If you want speed might as well plan on your brass not lasting long or your barrel. It's the price you pay for speed.

Scott

 

[Jtate]

I think you are on the right track, all of your research is pointing the same way mine is. Additionally to the .237 bore, I also think the 5R style rifling is important. I just wrapped up my build, now I am waiting on dies that are on back order. I stocked in 5000 wolf primmer. I do think you will get max speed with the laupa small primmer 308 case, reloader 17 and a under size firing pin, but I am not sure how well it will shoot compared to 3150+or - load with 4350. Another case to look at would be the 6x47L Shehane, a lot easier to fire fore than converting the 308 cases. The .189 freebore seams to be driven by coppercreek ammo and GAP. After a lot of reading I went with a .130 FB. The other thing I did was to go with a 30 inch barrel. When I think of off the hook stuff looking at only speed and not wind, is how fast can I push a 6.5 mm 95grain VMAX? I shoot them now in a grendel gas gun and print some outstanding groups. For a cheater steel target gun in 260, 6.5 creed or 6.5x47L they might be a lot of fun.

 

[SHootSTraight22]

I don't think you can form the 6SLR from Lapua brass with out getting a doughnut that needs to be turned out. Also not sure if the small primer with light the amount of slow burning powder needed to get the speed you want. If you want speed might as well plan on your brass not lasting long or your barrel. It's the price you pay for speed.

Scott

I see what you trying to say but just feel you "may" be wrong on this one.. As for the slow burning powder issue that reminds me of a write up I read once. A guy was shooting H1000 or some slow burning something aqnd accuracy sucked.. The guy switched up primers to a hotter burn like a true mag primer (TulaAmmoKVB223M, some say Rem 6.5 or 7.5 are) and accuracy came around.. It makes scents to match components and I feel most do not!! What I wanted to try with all this we're talking about is: 6mm SLR or 6mmCreedmoore, formed from Lapua Palma brass, using H4350 or even Varget (varget load may require coated bullets to drop pressure), also using hotter primers or the best I have excess to (S&B, Wolf, TulaAmmo same as wolf, Fed, CCI, and Rem 6.5..) The hotter primers will help with burn if test show I need it but I feel H4350 below 51gr should be fine.. This will be shot in a long freebore plus .237 bore which both will drop pressure some to help me work up to my target.. I could even have my lands cut to a certain degree to ease on set of peak pressure (if possible.) Hell, someone here throw this all into "QuickLoad" and see what happens!! Please! Because I know if a 6x47Lapua can run all day long at 3,150fps then the Palma case 6mmSLR should have no problem running 3,230fps... Your right that Lapua brass will have to be turned but I'm hoping Lee Collet dies will help decrease the amount by pressing instead of pushing the brass back??? Any experience out there with Lee Collet's??? Also by no means anybody think I'm attacking their responds, I'm not.. I really appreiciate the dialog! This is something I really want to see done (find and shoot a 6mm in tac comps at 3,230 fps node..) Any help if someone has a 6SLR or 6mmCreedmoore would help?? I would help you in anyway I could to study this... All in all, I'm just looking for the ability to shoot a 6mm in a 3,200-3,230fps node not unlike the 3,100-3,150fps node everyone seems to be using... I figured Palma brass would be the ticket to gain this extra pressure sents it performs so well when used/converted into other rounds.. Any help here would be appreciated...

 

[SHootSTraight22]

I think you are on the right track, all of your research is pointing the same way mine is. Additionally to the .237 bore, I also think the 5R style rifling is important. I just wrapped up my build, now I am waiting on dies that are on back order. I stocked in 5000 wolf primmer. I do think you will get max speed with the laupa small primmer 308 case, reloader 17 and a under size firing pin, but I am not sure how well it will shoot compared to 3150+or - load with 4350. Another case to look at would be the 6x47L Shehane, a lot easier to fire fore than converting the 308 cases. The .189 freebore seams to be driven by coppercreek ammo and GAP. After a lot of reading I went with a .130 FB. The other thing I did was to go with a 30 inch barrel. When I think of off the hook stuff looking at only speed and not wind, is how fast can I push a 6.5 mm 95grain VMAX? I shoot them now in a grendel gas gun and print some outstanding groups. For a cheater steel target gun in 260, 6.5 creed or 6.5x47L they might be a lot of fun.

Yea, I don't understand the .190 freebore GA Precision is using unless it's for the exact reason we're having this conversation here about "high pressure..??" I wouldn't think someone could load a 105gr hybrid out to the lands and still have enough neck holding onto the bullet plus mag feed?? Unless they aren't trying to load out to the lands because they know the hybrids going to shoot the same backed away .040 off and they're basically using the long freebore to slow the "on set" of peak pressure.. It would make scents to do so with the 6mmCreedmoore if you are shooting it at 3,150fps and still able to save your brass for plenty of reloads.. The trick is also using the Russian "tight fitting" primers in them pockets also. (LOL, I bet some reading this don't like me giving out this 6mmCreedmoore info acheiving 3,150fps with reloadable brass..) It just makes scents that the 6mmSLR will do even better when using Palma brass and the Palma formed 6mmCreedmoore for that matter.. Just look how many people have shot and published results using Palma brass with a 308win.,or any other round that could benefit from higher pressure, they all get 50-150fps higher velocity with the smaller primer pocket.. Everyone does! Some of us could really benefit from shooting a 6mm at 3,230fps onto unknown steel plates especially when some of the others get told what the unknown distance is!!!??? Hint!! I don't shoot on a team and also don't brown nose the match directors so I need to find some other advantage!! LOL! At the end of the day a 105gr hybrid @ 3,230fps doesn't effect steel targets any differently than those moving at 3,150fps, meaning it's not like I'm dimpling someones targets up.. I'm just interested in equaling the playing field some, because a lot of people have unfair advantages, they don't even make some shoot across a chronograph to check the speed limit!

 

[Dgd6mm]

I don't think either of those cases have enough boiler room. For 3200+ you need to look at the 6CM (Competition Match) or the 243 Ackley. And a long barrel will be a big help.

My first 6CM (Competition Match) 27" 115 DTAC, H1000, 3225 fps. Winchester .243 brass, I have retired brass with over 20 firings. Dropped the charge a bit and shrunk my 1000 yard groups by just over 2". Last weekend when I was at Core Shooting range in the Black Forest , while checking my 100 yard zero. 3 shots in prone, coldbore and 2 others back to back almost one hole, a very tight ragged hole. This is the norm for this Krieger barrel, 4200 rounds down the barrel. I know we are not talking about the 6CM here. Between the Creed and the SLR I would choose the SLR, 26-28 inch barrel with a 105 and run it in the 3200 area. There are shooters that have done it, bunch of posted info out there on it. Talk to Whitley about it.

 

[SHootSTraight22]

I don't think either of those cases have enough boiler room. For 3200+ you need to look at the 6CM (Competition Match) or the 243 Ackley. And a long barrel will be a big help.

My first 6CM (Competition Match) 27" 115 DTAC, H1000, 3225 fps. Winchester .243 brass, I have retired brass with over 20 firings. Dropped the charge a bit and shrunk my 1000 yard groups by just over 2". Last weekend when I was at Core Shooting range in the Black Forest , while checking my 100 yard zero. 3 shots in prone, coldbore and 2 others back to back almost one hole, a very tight ragged hole. This is the norm for this Krieger barrel, 4200 rounds down the barrel. I know we are not talking about the 6CM here. Between the Creed and the SLR I would choose the SLR, 26-28 inch barrel with a 105 and run it in the 3200 area. There are shooters that have done it, bunch of posted info out there on it. Talk to Whitley about it.

Great thanks!!! I live just north of CORE! I'm working on building a "huge shooting plex" up here in Bama... We will have over 20,000 acres and possibly 1 mile shot.. I'm wanting to built a "square range", 3gun/assult style bays, plus all the 20,000acres available for a walk about type match like held out west.. It's going to be awsome if it all goes through!!!