6mm Creedmoor powders

[Joel Dubose]

Hi, I'm shooting a 6mm Creedmoor in 1000 yard competition. I'm using H4350 currently but the problem is when I shoot at a charge weight for accuracy, I'm only at about 75% case capacity. I'm looking for a powder that is a little bigger and slower burn rate so that I can be at 100% load capacity, and not over pressure, or burn barrels. It's been said that I should try H1000 and fill it till it crunches. Any thoughts ? Has anyone tried H1000 or another powder that accomplishes what I'm trying to do? I mentioned something about this in another post but thought that I would bring it up for conversation.
In my opinion, that smaller case capacity of a dasher is one of the things that makes it such a efficient case. To get the speeds that you need for accuracy and precision it need to be 100 % load if not more.
Thanks

 

[SAPenguin]

I have used H1000 - about 44.4gr behind a 115 DTAC, gives me 2930 fps, out of a 26" barrel. Have not tested it out to 1000 yards, but works well at 500.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Look at a powder burn rate chart and pick one a bit slower and see how it fills. Keep doing that until you get the speed you want

 

[Kurz]

I'm using H4350 currently but the problem is when I shoot at a charge weight for accuracy, I'm only at about 75% case capacity.

Then you picked the lower node for accuracy instead of going further up the ladder.

I'm looking for a powder that is a little bigger and slower burn rate so that I can be at 100% load capacity, and not over pressure, or burn barrels.

There are occasions when you just can't have everything you want in a component search for one cartridge.

First of all, rarely do any of us shoot 'over-pressure' intentionally. So that part can be ignored.

H-1000 can certainly be poured into a case until that case is full then seat a bullet on top of that. It's neither efficient or practical when trying to use common sense.

I end up shooting a lot of 6mm Creedmoor when I'm not shooting a 6XC instead. When I'm running the 115 DTAC (newest version), I use either Re-25/26 or Norma MRP. These two will fill the case to just below the bullet base when the OAL is kept at 2.800". You will need to start lower and work your way up as some barrels can show earlier signs of pressure. This ends up being very efficient while achieving a reasonably higher velocity. If you want longer barrel life and don't care about velocity, you can use one of the Enduron powders to fill the case up and slow your velocity down.

 

[Joel Dubose]

What seems to be missing is my goal of being at 100% full on case capacity, and not burn out the barrel. When you list what powder and charge weight, lmk how full the case is.

 

[6ShotsOr5?]

My 6 Creed load is a little “slow” at 2880 fps with 38 grains H4350 in Peterson brass with CCI 450 SRPs. I didn’t calculate the fill %. I had another node at 2812 fps and 38.4 grains. I didn’t push it any higher than 38 gr because I don’t really need more speed. What was your charge and velocity that gave you 75% fill? Edit: Oops - Using Berger 105 Hybrid Target bullets.

 

[46and2]

Mine didn't like h4350 that much...it loved RL19 but pressures increased this summer so tried H4831SC and it's every bit as accurate but 100fps slower.

 

[varget204]

Loading 6 creedmoor,Lapua case,Rem 7 1/2 ,44.7 H-4831 sc w/ 105's, 26" 1-8", .104 freebore

 

[ShootDots]

Can I ask the OP a stupid question? If say RL-16, H4350 and VV N160 work well, why are you worried about getting a 100% fill? I had 2 / 6 Creedmoors that I used in 600 and 1000 yard competition, using the aforementioned powders. When the wind was not huffing and puffing, both shot very well out at both 600 and 1000 yards. Out of a 30" barrel the 115 DTACS were sailing at 3115 with no signs of pressure. Will a 100% fill do better than that? Just asking>>>>not criticizing..

 

[Joel Dubose]

Can I ask the OP a stupid question? If say RL-16, H4350 and VV N160 work well, why are you worried about getting a 100% fill? I had 2 / 6 Creedmoors that I used in 600 and 1000 yard competition, using the aforementioned powders. When the wind was not huffing and puffing both shot very well out at both 600 and 1000 yards. Out of a 30" barrel they 115 DTACS were sailing at 3115 with no signs of pressure. Will a 100% fill do better than that? Just asking>>>>not criticizing..

I'm doing a ton of testing and research trying to learn what I can about what equals Precision and accuracy. In my testing so far, I've noticed that there seems to be what I call a powder node that is separate from barrel harmonics. What I mean by that is when I'm tuning to OCW i'm measuring more than one thing (group size). I've also been keeping up with muzzle velocities and the variants of it. Take for example my best group didn't occur when I had the best extreme spread or std deviation. Hence I've decide to tune the barrel so that the best charge weight (lowest extreme spread) occurs at the same point as my barrel node. I'm currently reading more about positive compensation that will help when changes occur in muzzle velocity. I've messed with barrel breaks and tuners as well starting to tune my barrel by cutting it like a rim fire. I'm looking at things like the shape of the barrel and its effects on frequencies as well. Long story short, how the powder lays in the chamber of the cartridge seems to add a variable that I want to take out by either going to a different cartridge like a 6BRX or 6XC type of thing or find a powder that will fill the case 100% that doesn't over pressure. On the 6mm Creedmoor, the burn rate doesn't allow me to get where I want to be. I would also like to stay with a stable powder for temp variation like the H4350 is.
Hope that this makes sense, I'm not a guy that explains well my thought process.

 

[46and2]

H4831SC will get you about at 95 to 100%.
I guess I'm right in the middle using Alpha Munitions brass.

 

[Joel Dubose]

I don't know that the things that I'm saying are 100% true. I'm learning. However having said that if anyone has something to add, or discuss, that's why I'm here. I learn a lot by reading the comments of some of you guys on here.

 

[Joel Dubose]

H4831SC will get you about at 95 to 100%.
I guess I'm right in the middle using Alpha Munitions brass.

Thank you, I will get some to test.

 

[Joel Dubose]

H4831SC will get you about at 95 to 100%.
I guess I'm right in the middle using Alpha Munitions brass.

How do you like that brass?

 

[ShootDots]

I'm doing a ton of testing and research trying to learn what I can about what equals Precision and accuracy. In my testing so far, I've noticed that there seems to be what I call a powder node that is separate from barrel harmonics. What I mean by that is when I'm tuning to OCW i'm measuring more than one thing (group size). I've also been keeping up with muzzle velocities and the variants of it. Take for example my best group didn't occur when I had the best extreme spread or std deviation. Hence I've decide to tune the barrel so that the best charge weight (lowest extreme spread) occurs at the same point as my barrel node. I'm currently reading more about positive compensation that will help when changes occur in muzzle velocity. I've messed with barrel breaks and tuners as well starting to tune my barrel by cutting it like a rim fire. I'm looking at things like the shape of the barrel and its effects on frequencies as well. Long story short, how the powder lays in the chamber of the cartridge seems to add a variable that I want to take out by either going to a different cartridge like a 6BRX or 6XC type of thing or find a powder that will fill the case 100% that doesn't over pressure. On the 6mm Creedmoor, the burn rate doesn't allow me to get where I want to be. I would also like to stay with a stable powder for temp variation like the H4350 is.
Hope that this makes sense, I'm not a guy that explains well my thought process.

I think I understand what you are trying to accomplish. However, at least in my world, what the results are on paper becomes the final answer to my quest for acceptable accuracy. I shoot F-Open and MY parameters are "generally" I want my groups (5 shots each) to be close to 3/4" at 300 yards. "Most" days I achieve that IF the weather is cooperative. Some days that exact same load will go past 1.25", yet on other days the groups may average under 3/4", some well under! I consider that to be an excellent load for F-Open. I myself have never seen "consistent" groups that hover right at 3/4" or less day after day. Like I said, I think I know your goal. All the testing will give you a lot of info, but what translates on paper is the final arbiter.

 

[Joel Dubose]

I think I understand what you are trying to accomplish. However, at least in my world, what the results are on paper becomes the final answer to my quest for acceptable accuracy. I shoot F-Open and MY parameters are "generally" I want my groups (5 shots each) to be close to 3/4" at 300 yards. "Most" days I achieve that IF the weather is cooperative. Some days that exact same load will go past 1.25", yet on other days the groups may average under 3/4", so well under! I consider that to be an excellent load for F-Open. I myself have never seen "consistent" groups that hover right at 3/4" or less day after day. Like I said, I think I know your goal. All the testing will give you a lot of info, but what translates on paper is final arbiter.

Working on 1" groups at 1000. I've shot 2" or bigger but like you said, my agg isn't there. Shoot in the morning, great groups, same charge different time of day is about double in size.

 

[ShootDots]

Working on 1" groups at 1000. I've shot 2" or bigger but like you said, my agg isn't there. Shoot in the morning, great groups, same charge different time of day is about double in size.

T-Rust me, YOU are shooting excellent groups! Unless and until we get better loading components, better barrel steels AND "all the stars line up", getting even "fairly consistent" 1" groups at 1000 is going to be very tough! I think even when technology produces better components than are currently available, getting 1" groups will be an elusive quest. But hey! If we don't try, we never will accomplish that or anything else!

 

[46and2]

How do you like that brass?

I'm only on the 2nd firing but the case to case consistency uniformity, and case wall concentricity are outstanding.
THEY ARE made in USA.

 

[Joel Dubose]

T-Rust me, YOU are shooting excellent groups! Unless and until we get better loading components, better barrel steels AND "all the stars line up", getting even "fairly consistent" 1" groups at 1000 is going to be very tough! I think even when technology produces better components than are currently available, getting 1" groups will be an elusive quest. But hey! If we don't try, we never will accomplish that or anything else!

That's best practice groups. I can't do it Consistently even with the same load same day. An average group is more like 4.5 plus inches.

 

[ShootDots]

That's best practice groups. I can't do it Consistently even with the same load same day. An average group is more like 4.5 plus inches.

That's why records are set on "perfect days" where the "stars for whatever reason all line up"! But it does show that it can be done!