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6CM - Here's a picture

rcw3

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A lot of people are wondering what the 6CM case looks like, so here's a picture of a 243 Win,left) vs Joe Hendricks 6CM,center) vs a 6mm Super X,right).

Robert Whitley
 
My original understanding was the 6CM had the shoulder pushed back 0.100" as well...the pics doesnt appear that way :confused:

JB
 
The 6CM shoulder angle is actually 31 degrees - much steeper would not be so good for rapid fire feeding out of magazines. The shoulder is not bumped back, and it's like an Ackley type case where there is a slight jam fit with 243 Win brass when loaded into the chamber, and when fired things fire form from there. The beauty is no forming of brass up front - just load up 243 Win brass, stick it in the chamber and pull the trigger and your brass is made! You can shoot the new 243 Win brass for short lines, practice, etc.

Pretty neat cartridge!

Robert
 
Moderator said:
Sure makes me wonder what all the fuss is about.

A 243 with a 30-degree shoulder,35??) it looks like.


I never claimed it to be much more than that. However, it is not a 243 with a 31 degree shoulder.

If you look closely at the picture you will see that both the neck and body are longer than the parent 243 Win.

Longer neck for added accuracy and longer body for added case capacity.

Joe Hendricks
 
Well of course the body is longer, but the neck? by how much? Will a strait 243 case still headspace off the shoulder when inserted in the improved chamber or does the shoulder need to be set back first? It does'nt appear from the pic that the shoulder is set back at all. How does it grow when fireformed? It should shorten up...
 
joesr said:
. . . Longer neck for added accuracy and longer body for added case capacity.

Joe & Robert

Seems like this just won't go away quietly.;)

OK, so it's a 31 Degree 243 Ackley. Ackley hisself did the 30 degree and Warren Page did the 35 degree, both with the same results.

An Ackley chamber is a crush fit with factory ammo and .004" short chamber headspace. Much more than that and closing the bolt becomes problematic so I can't really see where neck length can be increased very much beyond that. ,Remember the 220 Wilson/Woytkins Arrow that used the same principal but required that the factory case be reformed before it could be chambered?)

But Joe, all that aside, I seriously question your statement above that claims "longer neck for added accuracy". How did you arrive at that conclusion? Recent experiments by a couple of score shooters seem to contradict that,30 Wolf Pup).

Ain't wildcatting fun?

Ray:D
 
Joe

It looks like I stirred up a hornets nest by posting the photo showing the 6CM. I still think the cartridge is neat and I can't wait to try it out. To me it does not matter whether Ackley or someone else may have dabbled with a similar case design, where did they ever go with it? Measuring things up, the 6CM clearly has a longer neck and a longer body than the 243Win and I don't know why people have such a hard time accepting the fact that that might be possible.

Robert Whitley
 
Robert

Don't take my comments wrong. I don't see it as hornets nest, but rather a bunch of guys talking about guns and bullets. As a certifiable wildcatter myself I enjoy these kind of threads a lot more than, "will a 45-70 kill a deer".

P.O. is probably rolling in his grave hearing that he "dabbled" in these types of things.;);)

You can bet one thing. If you guys start winning matches with the 6CM I'll be waiting in line for a reamer. I like to hear my name called during the A Ward ceremonies as much as the next guy.

Happy holidays to all you guys.

Ray
 
I dont have much for experience in benchrest and Im not trying to cause hate and dissension,but if added capacity and a longer neck make a better br case as compared to the 243,why isnt the 6mmAI a winner?
 
Robert W,,I have been designing my own cartridges since 1997,the success for me has been a lot of fun and well worth the effort..I have no doubt that any thing i have done has probably already been done by others in the past ..Being in Australia,a long way from the hub of Long Range rifle competition i don't have access to all this info..My own design cartridges have taken me to a bunch wins and 9 Australian National Records including winning the AUS Shooter Of the Year in 2006 ..That being said i would never say to anyone that my cartridges are better than XYZ because i don't have the proof to back it up...Making a statement like "the .340 long neck on my 300 Redneck cartridge has made it more accurate and better than the 300WM will eventually bring ridicule and disbelief from my fellow shooters and i'm not supprised this thread got the reaction it did..JR..Jeff Rogers...............
rcw3 said:
Joe

It looks like I stirred up a hornets nest by posting the photo showing the 6CM. I still think the cartridge is neat and I can't wait to try it out. To me it does not matter whether Ackley or someone else may have dabbled with a similar case design, where did they ever go with it? Measuring things up, the 6CM clearly has a longer neck and a longer body than the 243Win and I don't know why people have such a hard time accepting the fact that that might be possible.

Robert Whitley
 
Cheechako said:
joesr said:
. . . Longer neck for added accuracy and longer body for added case capacity.

Joe & Robert

Seems like this just won't go away quietly.;)

OK, so it's a 31 Degree 243 Ackley. Ackley hisself did the 30 degree and Warren Page did the 35 degree, both with the same results.

An Ackley chamber is a crush fit with factory ammo and .004" short chamber headspace. Much more than that and closing the bolt becomes problematic so I can't really see where neck length can be increased very much beyond that. ,Remember the 220 Wilson/Woytkins Arrow that used the same principal but required that the factory case be reformed before it could be chambered?)

But Joe, all that aside, I seriously question your statement above that claims "longer neck for added accuracy". How did you arrive at that conclusion? Recent experiments by a couple of score shooters seem to contradict that,30 Wolf Pup).

Ain't wildcatting fun?

Ray:D

This is no Ackley. Ackley improved his cartridges by straighting the wall of the case and then blowing the shoulder out to what ever degree he chose.

This is a cartridge designed for shooting XTC competition. It transfers well to F Class, and other long range applications, but make no mistake it was made for winning the XTC Camp Perry Championship. It feeds well, because I kept the taper in the body and it shoots unbelievably great.

Does a longer neck make a difference...I don't know. At the time that I was developing the cartridge the consciouses amongst bench rest shooters was that a longer neck added accuracy. I don't know if it does or not.

All I can tell you is that this is the best cartridge I have ever shot at 600 yards. It seems to be inside of every shooter I shoot beside.

Furthermore, I did set a National Record with this cartridge at the end of this year with over 3000 rounds through the barrel.

Joe H
 
ballistic64 said:
I dont have much for experience in benchrest and Im not trying to cause hate and dissension,but if added capacity and a longer neck make a better br case as compared to the 243,why isnt the 6mmAI a winner?

It is very simple. The wrong angle on the shoulder and too straight a case.

Joe H
 
joesr said:
This is no Ackley. Ackley improved his cartridges by straighting the wall of the case and then blowing the shoulder out to what ever degree he chose.

Joe

All of the 243 Ackleys that I have seen have the same case taper as the original. It's already minimum to begin with. The only change has been to increase the shoulder angle which really does little to increase case capacity. Robert's 6mm Super X reduces capacity a little,which I think is a good thing for 6mm) but does result in a longer neck. The longer neck does not increase accuracy, IMHO, but does make for better seating of the long, high BC bullets, and lets you chase the lands when necessary. Warren Page's 240 Page is a spitting image of the Super X.

And I've won a few pieces of fake wood with a 244 Ackley.:D I think it's all in the barrel, and the shooter.

Ray
 
Boy you guys are relentless on Joe.

How about a comment like - "Hey Joe pretty neat cartridge good luck with it".

Robert Whitley
 
OK, something is not adding up here...here is the original pic I got from Joe showing:

243 - 6CM - 6xc

6CMpic.jpg


Then Robert's pic showing:
243 - 6CM - 6superX

file


I know the initial 6CM design employed a pushed back shoulder,0.100" IIRC) as that was my reservation that Joe and I discussed RE: shoulder brass now being in the neck...

Actually, here is the quote from an email from Joe:

"Actually the shoulder is 31 degress and the neck is .01 longer than a 243"

What gives??
 
Hey Joe pretty neat cartridge good luck with it.

I'm not being sarcastic. I really mean it. I would not wish any bad on any shooter. We need to stick together, especially now that we are in for a fight over the next couple of years, minimum.

There, I've gone and thrown politics into this boiling pot.:D

Happy holidays to all.

Ray
 
jb1000br said:
OK, something is not adding up here...here is the original pic I got from Joe showing:

243 - 6CM - 6xc

6CMpic.jpg


Then Robert's pic showing:
243 - 6CM - 6superX

file


I know the initial 6CM design employed a pushed back shoulder,0.100" IIRC) as that was my reservation that Joe and I discussed RE: shoulder brass now being in the neck...

Actually, here is the quote from an email from Joe:

"Actually the shoulder is 31 degress and the neck is .01 longer than a 243"

What gives??

jb1000br

The first picture you posted is a picture I sent you,not Joe) showing the 243 Win,Left) vs the 6mm Super X,center) and the 6XC,right). The 6CM is not in that photo, so that's where there is some confusion on you part.

The 6CM and the 6mm Super X are otherwise unrelated. I made up the 6mm Super X that has about .120" longer headspace than a 6XC but uses 243Win brass, and Joe made up the 6CM that also uses 243 Win brass. I don't know exactly, but .010" is probably about right for the extra neck length of the 6CM over a 243 Win.

Robert Whitley
 
Robert, that picture was sent to me by Joe. Timestamped: Saturday, August 27, 2005 5:29:48 PM

with the caption:

"In the picture the 243 Win is first the 6CM is next and then the 6XC."

Jason
 
Robert...it appears both photo's are yours due to backgrouod similarities, but it seems maybe Joe sent me the wrong picture initially, "way back when" before you even thought of posting about the 6 super x :confused:

JB
 

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