6br neck tension

[chet]

I have a 6br and I am thinking neck tension might be an issue with some of my flyers that I am getting, I am presently using a Forest die, it full sizes and resizes the neck when I pull the case from the die with a button, can I control neck size better with this die, and can I make use of Lee Collet die in a 6mm or a 6PPC by making some kind of a spacer ect. I have this idea in my head that I may be able to control the neck tension better with a Lee collet die, am I an the right track

Chet

 

[Forum Boss]

With a Lee Collet die you have almost no control over the amount of neck tension, other than by turning the center mandrel to reduce diameter.

I also recently tested a Lee Collet die for the .223 Remington. I found the workmanship to be so bad as to essentially render the die useless.

Actually, it was worse than useless. You could start with a case with low run-out and a round neck, and this particular die would produce a case with bad run-out with a polygonal neck with big gouges on the outside.

It wasn't until I spent about 45 minutes deburring the collet fingers, polishing the tooling marks out of the forcing cone, polishing the mandrel, and then honing the collet entry surfaces,to make sure they formed a circle), could I get the die to work at all. But it still gave inconsistent results. Sized neck dimension varied up to .0015 from case to case.

I know some users have had success with Lee collet dies. The design should work... if manufactured properly. However, I suspect you would have nothing but trouble using one on a 6BR and you'd probably make any neck-tension variances much worse.

It is really hard for me to express in print how completely unsatisfactory the Lee collet die was. In 15 plus years of precision reloading I don't think I've ever encountered a product that angered me more. I was literally tempted to toss the die in the ocean. I was so disgusted I called Lee and spoke to their VP of operations.

Re Forster Die
The first thing you may want to try is removing the expander button. If that leaves you with too much neck tension, you can ask Forster to hone the neck of the die to a larger diameter.

 

[Travelor]

Get a neck collet die and you will be able to change collets to change neck tension. I sue the Redding competition neck collet dies and find the runout and consistency to be excellant.

http://www.redding-reloading.com/pages/compbushneckdie.html

George

 

[Travelor]

dmorgan - yes bushing dies, not collet dies.

George

 

[rayjay]

Take 3 fired cases [ that have been fired at least twice in your gun ] and send them to Harrell's Precision for a semi-custom die. You will need to order some bushings, .265 and a .266 should do it.

Plan B. Send your Forster die back to Forster and have them hone the neck to .266. I used plan B back when I had a Savage with an SSS/Douglas bbl.

Part 2. If your brass has been fired more than 3 times you need to anneal it.

 

[billmo]

From my results with the Lee dies, I agree that unless you are prepared to do some honing and final finishing you probably would be better served by a Redding or Forster dies. Lee dies simply are not at the same level of quality and do not produce consistant re-sizing for me and I would not spend my money on them. Just my opinion. Bill

 

[dreever]

You can call Forrester and send your die back to have the neck opened up to whatever you want for a nominal fee, I think it's $25 bucks. I did that with a .223 die to decrease the neck tension and it works like a charm.
Mic a loaded round with the bullet you intend to use at the neck and subtract .003-.005,whatever the desired tension you want. This goes for selecting a bushing for a bushing die also.
If you have the bucks a Redding Competition bushing die is the way to go.

Danny

 

[jb1000br]

Part 2. If your brass has been fired more than 3 times you need to anneal it.

Don't think I'd sweat that too much...my 8x fired 6BR brass is still doing just fine.

JB

 

[AlNyhus]

I also recently tested a Lee Collet die for the .223 Remington. I found the workmanship to be so bad as to essentially render the die useless.
Actually, it was worse than useless. You could start with a case with low run-out and a round neck, and this particular die would produce a case with bad run-out with a polygonal neck with big gouges on the outside.

It is really hard for me to express in print how completely unsatisfactory the Lee collet die was. In 15 plus years of precision reloading I don't think I've ever encountered a product that angered me more. I was literally tempted to toss the die in the ocean. I was so disgusted I called Lee and spoke to their VP of operations.

Careful, Paul . I recently made similar comments about Lee dies here and was darn near burned in effigy. You would have thought I'd called the Pope a Lutheran........:lol:

Laffin' here. -Al

 

[Forum Boss]

Paul -- 100% respect and agree with you on the collet die!!!
You have me very curious as to what the VP of operations had to say???????

Happy Shooting
Donovan Moran

I spoke with a member of the Lee family. Honestly can't remember the first name.

I tried to be courteous and explain the difficulties I had encountered and my experience as to how the die was basically non-functional until it had been honed and polished.

His response was that 'a Lee collet die always produces good ammo...it has to.'

He then said any problems I had encountered were due to improper die adjustment. I explained to him that I'd tested the die with 50+ pieces of brass and tried the die essentially from 'all the way in' to backed off enough that the neck diameter didn't change at all.

He refused to believe what I told him about the die--how the tooling 'chatter marks' on the inside interfered with the smooth closing of the collect fingers, and how the fingers pressed unevenly on the neck, leaving a box-shaped neck with nasty gouges.

Even after much polishing the only way I could get reasonable consistency with neck tension was to grease the collet fingers of the die and lubricate the case necks.

Mr. Lee verbally disputed everything I said... Repeatedly told me 'you're wrong... what you're describing can't happen... you set the die incorrectly.' He clearly wrote me off as a 'kook'.

FYI, this is the only time I have ever contacted a reloading parts supplier and reported, flat-out, the their product doesn't work right at all. My exact words were: 'I believe you have a major quality control problem.'

Mr. Lee was courteous and gave me a good 10 minutes of his time. But what I said seemed to go in one ear and out the other.

---

Regarding the die setting--keep in mind that it wasn't until the die was aggressively honed and polish could it produce a round neck without gouges. And I did try the die at virtually all possible settings from down so far I could only move the ram 2/3 to so far up that the neck was untouched.

 

[blawton]

Every lee die i have owned or ones my friends have used made good reloads. They were very concentric dies. If your having problems with neck tension then you should use a inside neck reamer to set it up a little.

 

[panhandle]

I have spent my intire working career in the machinist and tool making trade. I have found that the quality of machining that I have found with the Lee dies is not acceptable for me. Guess I exspect more quality from a die maker. Every die I have purchased of theirs had problems. Just went and counted how many I have purchased and I have 4 sets and they are all back in the boxes that they came in. It's a shame because they do have some very good ideas. They just have a large quality problem. And yes, I do realize that many people are very satisfied with their products, I just not one of them.

 

[yat3b35]

Your problem may very well not be neck tension at all. It could be that your load might be just a tad to hot.Try backing off on your powder charge by .2 or so and see if you still get the fliers. My 6ppc would spit a shot out of the group and when I opened the bolt it would open a bit harder than the shots that stayed in the group.I dropped my powder charge by .2 and the groups stayed tight, no more fliers. I use a custom made fl bushing type sizer die and a Wilson chamber type seating die.My sizing die was made by the smith that chambered my rifle. Just my 2 cents worth. John