600yd Nationals--New Score Record breaking gun.

[expiper]

I finally got home and caught up on yard work etc.,,was out west visiting my son in the Navy for 5wks!!)),,,and wanted to give credit to all the folks that made my new record possible...
I was shooting a 6mmBR,naturally) using a Kelbly F-class action -,integral 20moa rib and recoil lug)RB/LP--Jewell trigger--Leupold/Premiere 30-50 variable,usually set on 30x because of the intense mirage during the event)...Krieger UHV 6mm 8' twist .237' bore bbl.,,cut to 28 1/2' by Greg Walley,Kelbly in house gunsmith) using a Kiff,PTG) reamer--.271' no-turn--.040' FB,,,Berger 105 VLD's jamed to give the classic square mark and just enuff bolt resistance to allow effortless gun handeling,,with my Kelbly Klub stock..,I use a conventional 'B'enchrest stock with legal 'point blank' drop so that I can change bbls. and compete in various events with one universal rifle...52 clicks of Rx-15 --Fed. 205 primers and Lapua brass,just chamfered the inside and outside case mouth) ...
The event was shot during comfortable weather ..buttt...very windy and tough shooting conditions...
It is the first National record for me,,and I am tikled to death to be involved,almost 40yrs) with all the good folks in the NBRSA and the shooting community in general....Roger
PS---Here is a pic of the Record breaking 600yd rifle..
Stolle/Kelbly Panda--F-Class---RB/LP
Gunsmith// Greg Walley--,,Kelbly Inc.))
Kelbly Klub stock--Kelbly double screw rings--Gun Wt. 13.4lbs
Jewell Triger---Leupold/Premiere 30-50 variable
Krieger 8'twist--.237' bore.....28 1/2'....UHV profile
.271' no turn ...040' FB-Kiff,PTG) Reamer
105 Berger VLD's---jamed .015' ..aprox
52 kliks of Rx-15, Culver measure)
Fed 205--Lapua brass
Witcita Front rest,,light enuff to carry on airline!!))
Protector Low Profile/rabbit ear,,Heavy sand in bottom--ocean sand in ears))
W/Skip Otto ring bag

 

[Moderator]

Roger,

We're all pleased with your success and very proud of you. Nice to see you made your way into the record-books despite the nasty conditions.

'one universal BR rifle'?? What a great idea... something I've been advocating since this site started. Good for you!

PS, looks like your photo was downsized before you attached it. Perhaps you can send me the original and I'll repost it.

MODERATOR

 

[billmo]

Hey Roger, Way to go man. Happy for you. Hope you continue to win. You should be very proud. Bill

 

[BJ44BJ]

congratulations on the gun and the record. I would like to know if the .040 freebore has caused any problems with the heavier bullets? Dave Kiff is currently making another reamer for me with .035 FB. I am going to use this to chamber a 14 twist barrel. After reading about your gun I thought it may be possible to use this same reamer to chamber a 12 twist barrel that I wanted to shoot the 80 gr Berger bullets? Any comment would be appreciated. Thanks

 

[expiper]

The Berger and Fowler 80 gr. flat base bullets are two of the deepest seating bullets that you will encounter....they both seat at aprox. .280 jam with my FB so yours wuld be .005 deeper...and the BR usealbe neck lenght is aprox .300...sooo you will be fine....even the 107's will seat around .270...you shuld be fine...Roger
PS...I cant get the Fowlers to stabalize...but the Bergers shoot fine...its a BC...bullet length thing ...nothing wrong with the Fowlers...but they just wont stabalize in my 14 twist bbls!!!.... in the 12 twist you shuld have no problems with any 80 to 90 gr bullet...
I just looked at the pic of my gun....you can see by the wear and tear on the rifle rest and the rear bag that my stuff gets used/shot a lot!!!grin....

 

[HPMike800]

Way to go Roger, way to go.

 

[Travelor]

What does the 52 Klikcs of RL-15 powder weigh?

George

 

[expiper]

I havent weighed a powder charge since I started shooting bak in the early 70's ..buttt it is somewhere around 30 gr...depending on the temp-humidity etc....it is one clik less than what will blow primers on a HOT day ...I adjust for the conditions and it chages ...I loaded 6 wks before the event and was a lil on the cool side ..I estimated,,guessed!!)) the tmps. to be in the 80's and they were in the 60-70's ....but still shot well...never a problem getting a ctg. in or out of the gun...no primer issues,smoke flyin in my face-grin) just open/shut and reset the gun....
I dont weigh powder charges or weigh/measure/whittle on the bullets .....I spin several down the bbl. and measure em on the paper.. I figgure your score is messed up a lot more by a wind flag that U dont notice than a bad bullet. I dont turn or true the necks,just trim to length and de-burr the case mouth..)..If there is a tool that I dont have that I think might help, it is one of those lil arbor presses with the strain guage built in,K-N) ...I think that the subtl lil differences in neck tension,which are beyond control because of metalurgical diff. in the brass-even if annealed) can be observed and avoided with such a tool.
PS..Hope this answers some of the questions that I have also recieved in various e-mails too.

 

[waterdog]

Great shooting, Roger. I am proud of you and know how you feel.

Isn't it amazing just how far 600yd benchrest has come, and how small the groups and scores are?

Nice looking gun, and good information in your post. Sometimes I wonder if we nit-pick too much.

Congratulations Roger, on a well-desreved record.

Larry Isenhour

 

[eggman]

Congratulations Roger on your record. I enjoyed your post and your 'keep it simple ' approach is refreshing . I too am shooting a Stolle F class action with the same configuration and am always pleased to see one do well. Good luck with the rest of the year and I look forward to meeting up with you one of these days .

Rodney

 

[TonyR]

Roger,
Has the short freebore in your rifle noticably effected the size of your groups when you are shooting the heavier bullets? It seems that people usually try to seat the boat-tail junction slightly above the neck/shoulder junction, but it seems that you are seating deeper than that and I wondered if it had a noticable effect.
Thanks.

 

[expiper]

HI Tony...what is the FB in your BR???...there seems to be a lot of mis-information out there about this ...my reamer is a Kiff,PTG-White City/Medford,OR)...I dont think it is marked wrong,,but the shank of the 105 Berger VLD and the Sierra 107 stops aprox. .035 from the donut.
I have a lot of folks ask this??? ...so that is why I am asking what is your FB...maby I need to change something...let me know..
Roger
PS...my hillbilly way of determining just exactly where the donut is by using a case with a donut in it...I dont size it...I then push each of the individual bullets that I use down untill they are touching the donut...then measure/record the overall length...then I seat the same bullets to jam length and measure/record that dim. .....and the difference between the two lenghts tells me the ammount of clearance that each bullet has...and it tells me of the ones that have to seat beyond the donut,these are the ones that I cant use...!!) so far the only one that is 'rite there' and has to be avoided is the 105 A-max. with my particular set up....hope this helps...

Rodney...good to hear frm uuu...Thank YOU...the F-class,as you know!!) is a very 'versital' action ...I used it because of the large load window so that in the future I culd chamber for .284 variants and 30-06 variants ....that is why the Kelbly Klub stock has a recoil pad on it!!!grin...although it is a 'pop' gun at the moment,,it may be a 'thunder boomer' sometime in the future.....I want to thank you again for the bullets that you sent me a while back to help with my chamber throat dims....you are a great help to us in the shooting community...take care..Roger

Larry...Thank YOU also ...it has been a long time-a-commin!! Lots of the folks on the internet have no idea of the level of competition that we face at these events,both short and long range) from the local level to the National level...I know that you do and I apreciate your thoughts....see you soon...Roger

PSS!!..there seems to be a lot of mis-understanding about FB and neck tension..
..I have been fortunate enuff to compete with and learn from some of the best shoters in the country....lots of shooters go to events and then go home and never interact with their fellow competitors...not me...I always wanted to learn as much as possibe and was very inquisitve about everything that was working and what was NOT working....my thoughts,IMHO) are that the bullet needs to be jamed so that it doesnt move for a cupla thou. then stop ...then start again..,hick-up) ..which causes a spike in the pressure curve...unless you jump em a lot,.030' or more)...by jaming the leade pilots the bullet in the chamber and corrects any runout that is in the ctg..,when you close the bolt in a bbl the size of Mack truck axle it will straighten,bend) the neck of the ctg which is .014' and made of brass)....and I use a LOT of neck tension because the powder that we use today is a far cry from WW-II era 4831/4895...these modern powders have all sorts of surface coatings and flame retardants to enhance the burn rate and reduce bbl wear that like,require) time to lite-up...thus the additional neck tension and jaming of the bullet gives the necessary mili. sec. to start an even burn...
I spent too many yrs grabbin the lunch pail by the handle and raisin 8 kids...now I am out there shootin...Free at last..hahahah...Roger

 

[expiper]

Hi Lynn....THANK YOU and especially to DAD...I hope that I can hold the record as long as he did....It is an honor to hold a record that is so hotly contested by so many great shooters....
It was the best event ever for me....OBTW ...when are the top twenty patches going to be mailed out...I am making a shadow box for the patches and targets etc....I am just like a kid in the candy store....hope to see you all soon...Roger

 

[expiper]

Hey,,hope you get to feeling better soon!!! I know what ear problems can do to your balance,,,grrrr...
I think I can better the reecord also...if I culd just get a cupla days when the targets werent dancing around like a 'HULA' girl....hahaha.....get some rest....take care...Roger

 

[TonyR]

Hi Roger
I don't know what the chamber specs are because I bought the rifle used. It is throated so that the 108BT 115 VLD Bergers or 107SMK will seat just above the neck/shoulder junction. The 95 and 105VLD both seat out in the neck a little. The gun shoots all of these bullets very well and much better than I can shoot. I have never measured any flat-based match bullets. What is the base-ogive distance on the light bullets you shoot?
Thanks

 

[expiper]

Thank you for the update....it is very confusing/complicated to an ole' hillbilly like me..grin...OBTW,,here is the link to the resultss on Benchrest Central...
http://www.benchrest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61964
Thanks agin Lynn...you do a great job of keeping the results up to date and available for everyone....Congrats to Bob Hoppe..he won it ALL,,,,,say hi to DAD...Roger

 

[expiper]

I just posted several pic of the competitors and the range at Sacremento,over on Benchrest Central...I culdnt get the pic on here......I realize that many of the posters/browsers here are not NBRSA members and would not get these pics...hope this helps put faces with names and results...Roger

http://www.benchrest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61964

 

[expiper]

I just got the targets bak yesterday....it is official..go here at Benchrest Central to view all the Records..
http://nbrsa.org/600yd-records-8122008
I am honored to be among the other record holders there...I have been doing this for almost 40 yrs,short range and long) and finally got a record...I am 'tikled pink'....Roger
PS...my Berger bullets arrived today...they got me here and I am anxious to try out this new lot ...maby get another record..grin...
Here is a link to a local newspaper story about my record and our sport....
http://www.newsandsentinel.com/page/content.detail/id/519724.html?nav=5056
I hope that this article and others like it will educate the general population to shootin sports and allow them to see it as a wholesome activity rather than in the negative light that many cast upon it and US>....Roger