6 mm Swiss Match AI (SMACK)

[JZ1each]

Fellas,

I just built a 6 mm Swiss match AI (smack) but have not started loading for it. I have fire formed brass and it looks similar to my 6-47L with a longer neck and the 40 deg shoulder which extends a bit more. I believe it will be pretty close to the 6-47L AI capacity wise. For the 6-47L AI shooters, my question is what powder and bullet combos did you test and what worked best? I plan on using mine for across the course high power, mid range and some long range matches.

Thanks in advance,
Joe Zerby

 

[Rtheurer]

Joe
What Did you do for a FL Die? I believe your loads will be very very close to what the 6XC and 6X47L. as the cartridge design is ver very close to those as you mention in your OP.

Did you use Winchester 22-250 Brass to make cases?

Sorry for the questions to your question.
RussT

 

[JZ1each]

RussT,

Dave Kiff made the reamer and a die reamer for me. The brass I've made so far has been from lapua 22-250, but I bought some Norma 6 XC brass and intend to try it. I know there are couple guys in the UK (Vince B. wrote an article about it) who have played with the 6mm Smack. But, I've never seen discussions about loading for it. I plan on trying Reloader 17 and VV 550 to start.

Joe

 

[Rtheurer]

Joe

If you would like I can give you some Quick Load info to help you along a little. I dont have the improved version as you have. Mine is the straight up plain ole 6mm Swiss Match.
I dont believe you will get much information as your about the only one in the US using one... So you will have to chart your own waters....Pun intended being a Service man.

Shoot me an email

RussT

 

[David2]

Re: 6 mm Swiss Match AI (SMACK), H4350 at 2980 fps

I shot the Smack for two years in IBS 600 matches, using 6.5x47 Lapua brass.
I tested to velocity up 3220 fps with 107 and 105, found the bullets
would not agg at these velocity's, 3130 was still to fast for the bullets, but
shot 3 matches before giving up on that velocity.
At 2980 to 3000 with H4350 was the best for group agg.
My second Smack feeds very good as varmint gun and brass forming
rifle. Using 22-250 or 6.5x47 Lapua brass, would leave a doughnut inside
the neck that can be fix. If I'm going shoot at Dasher velocity, why not
have one. Gave up on Smack in to try the Dasher, less brass work,
no doughnuts. Now that I shot the Dasher for a year, I may given up to soon.
Lots to learn. Small rifle primers has the best vertical agg in the Smack.
H4831 or N160 at 2800 fps is good, but that's 6 BR velocity.
I have Hornady dies set.

David2

 

[Baron]

I’am shooting a 6x47L Improved I call the 6mm Odin. It has a case capacity of 49.8 grains of H2O. My go to load is 40.2 gr. of H-4350 w/ Berger 105 BT Target at 3,200 fps. The Odin is very close to the XC but with a 40 degree shoulder.
Baron

 

[Martin M]

Hi Joe
If Dave Kiff made the reamer for you it is probably the reamer a friend and I= designed
Dave also has a 22 smack reamer we had made.
The Smack reamer was throated to take Berger 105 VLDs using swiss match cases.
I have tried Lapua brass it does hold up better than SM brass but I have 500 preped cases
plus another 500 new cases so have have stuck with them for now.
Started of using vv150 35+grns but felt it was a bit hot so started using vv160 39grns hoping it would give
better barrel life, bolt can get a bit sticky in very hot weather so go down to 38.3.
Found a good load at 3030 fps with the 105s. I use it for 1000 BR and F-Class. I used it in
the F-Class World Championships at Bisley and finished 15th it was the only 6mm to be used.
One of my friends likes to tell people when it outshoots there big 7s you know when you'v been smacked.
I Have a new barrel going on it soon and I will be trying vv560.
If theres anything else I can help with let me know.
I also had a resize reamer made was going to send it to Harrels to get a some full length dies made if your
interested in one let me know.
Martin UK

 

[JZ1each]

Martin,

Thank you. I was hoping you or Vince would chime in. A couple questions...have you tried any other powders beyond the VV series, what seating depth worked best (in the lands, kissing the lands or off the lands) and how was your barrel life? Also, how much are the sizing dies?

Joe

 

[garyw]

MARTIN- about time you joined in !

 

[Martin M]

Hi Gary
You know me don't talk a lot lol
Hi joe
No never used any other powder than vv in the smack it just shot from the get go with 150 and 160 so never tried anything else although I will be trying 560 as thats what i have been using in the 284 shahanee and. Berger 105vld are 10th into the lands tried off and further in but for me Bergers just seem to like being into lands nearly 2k on this barrel still going well bit of cracking but nothing a couple of shots wont fill in.
Harrels charge about $70 for dies haven't spoke to them but I heard they were making 6x47 dies so if I send resize reamer they could hofully make some.
I wonderd if rl17 or 4350 would be better may try them when i have some spare time. What powder and bullets are you using?
Martin M

 

[Laurie]

I wonderd if rl17 or 4350 would be better may try them when i have some spare time.

Martin, I found Re17 better than both H4350 and Viht N550 with 105/107s in the not dissimilar 6XC. Vince has recently become quite a 17 fan too in various 6-mills. I can't remember what he used in the 6SM - probably N550. We're using them for BR though, so I'm not sure how the barrel life would work out in F-Class with its higher round count. I'd likely stick to a single-base powder and lose 150 fps for that discipline.

 

[Martin M]

Hi Laurie
I use the smack for F-Class and BR so have stuck with the single based powders so far for that reason. But I would like to try RL17 you'll have to let me know how the barrel life goes.
I know the Sweeds got up to 3200+ with no pressure problems with sierra 107's in there 6xc's, they were using Norma MPR I believe. I don't know if that is a single base. I don't think a 6mm barrel would last to long at those speeds not for F-Class anyway.
Martin M

 

[Rtheurer]

Funny you should mention NOrma MRP. I was doing some quick load searching and MRP showes the highest Velocity in the Plain Swiss Match with just a bout all bullets above 90gr. Only probem that I see ( without testing it on the pressure trace system) is its high BTU/KJ temp. Its right up there with N500 powders and Varget at 4020. THe good thing is if you dont push it real hard is that your chamber pressure will be realtively low vs 4350 at the same speed. ( according to Quick load...)
I have a couple of pounds of it and am planning on giving it a go this spring to see how it fairs.

RussT

 

[JZ1each]

I plan on testing VV550, VV160, h4350 and re-17. The high power targets are much more forgiving than f class or BR so I'm not as concerned about top velocities. I'll gladly slow it down for consistent accuracy and longer barrel life. Hopefully I'll make it to the range on Sunday to test a few loads. I have Sierra 107s, Berger 105 VLDs, and Horn 105 amax's to test. The 105 amax's and Sierra 107's shot best in my 6-47L but at rather slow speeds. I'd probably stick with 6BR or 6BRX if I could get them to feed reliably in my Tikka 595 across the course rifle.

Joe

 

[Laurie]

Martin, Russ,

MRP is double-base, made by Bofors, Sweden I believe. Bofors also makes Alliant rifle powders bar Re17 (Nitro-Chemie, Switzerland) and it's said that if MRP and Re22 aren't the same thing, they're so close as to have no daylight between them. SO .... if you want to try MRP in the SMACK or XC etc but nobody imports / stocks it, try Re22 instead.

Some sources say Re22 is an 'improved' MRP, some say MRP has better quality control than Re22 so less variance between production lots, some say the opposite, and many say that MRP and Re22 are both chronically prone to big variations between lots! Take your pick.

Seeing what QuickLOAD says for the pair in the XC, they're close but not identical. 45.3gn Re22 gave the same pressure and a slightly higher fill-ratio than 46.0gn MRP behind a 107gn SMK. That could be back to simple lot variance if the critics are right.

 

[Martin M]

Hi Laurie with the rl17 its been about a while now we should be hearing if it is going to be a barrel burner but not heard anything like that yet?
Also been wondering with the 6x47 case in its various guises what the best barrel length would be. I started with a 30 inch barrel I don't think it needs to be that long with the short case and around 40 gr capacity I wonder at what point the powder is all burnt ? i was thinking of going down to 28 maybe shorter. Before I put the new barrel on I should cut an inch off the old one and see what happens to the velocity and carry on down to 26 inches I think that would interesting. Anyone else tried that? What barrel length are you using?
Hi Joe have you started your testing yet?
Martin M

 

[Laurie]

30-inches on my XC Martin. I got similar MVs with near identical charge weights using N550 and Re17, that is ~3,180 fps with the 107gn SMK. Looking at QuickLOAD, N550 should have needed a roughly 1gn lighter charge than Re17 to get there, but that's how it worked out in my barrel.

What Re17 did was to improve already small groups further, produce tiny MV spreads and crucially to apparently do it at a lower pressure. N550 performed very well at this accuracy node, but was just a bit too hot producing slight resistance on final bolt lift. 17 seems to be more in the rifle and cartridge's comfort zone at this performance level. I did try it too with 115gn DTACs, and although the velocities were good, the groups were nowhere near as small as I can get with 105s and the 107.

After half a dozen full-pressure loadings with H4350 supplanted by N550 and now Re17, the brass is standing up well with VERY tight primer pockets still. We'll just have to see how barrel life works out, but I'm only putting a couple of hundred rounds a year through the rifle, in fact less during last year and almost certainly this as F/TR is taking all my time, strength and treasure. I envisage doing a lot more BR in 2013 so the XC will get more outings then.

 

[JZ1each]

Martin,

Sorry for the delayed response. I was able to do some initial testing with h4831sc, vv160, and RL-17. I ran a ladder test on all three. All seemed to have a sweet spot around the middle to top range charge. However, h4831sc only spread 3" from the bottom charge to the top charge. Interesting because the other two were more in the 6-7" range. I retested 42.3 grains of h4831sc with decent success aside from the ES. I was using wolf primers, Berger 105s seated 10 thou in the lands and the brass was lapua 22-250 fire formed to 6 Smack. Cannot say I'm satisfied but I just haven't had the time to do more load testing. I'm going to shoot a 600 and 1000 yard match this coming week with the load and see how it does.

Joe

 

[Laurie]

Joe,

your findings tie in with what German Salazar says of the cartridge, which he's used extensively in long-range sling shooting. He found H4831sc very easy to tune and obtained excellent results with it. so much that I believe this is his standard powder in the cartridge. He did find though that 4831 MVs are well down on the faster burners in the 4350 bracket, but is willing to accept that penalty.

German uses the cartridge for long-range sling shooting though, and while as tough a competitive environment as any shooting discipline, findings there may not translate exactly to F-Class and bench-rest.

 

[1967spud]

I wonderd if rl17 or 4350 would be better may try them when i have some spare time.

Martin, I found Re17 better than both H4350 and Viht N550 with 105/107s in the not dissimilar 6XC. Vince has recently become quite a 17 fan too in various 6-mills. I can't remember what he used in the 6SM - probably N550. We're using them for BR though, so I'm not sure how the barrel life would work out in F-Class with its higher round count. I'd likely stick to a single-base powder and lose 150 fps for that discipline.

lol