6 mm br or 6 mm ppc

[maddysdad]

am shooting out to 300 or so yards at groundhogs in my area.whitch would you think be the better cartrige for this using 60 to 70 grain bullets.also how fast could i push them in a light varmint class gun? i am looking to buy a used one from mr bob white in new jersy in the coming months.any and all thoughts on this will be greatly apprecated.
gary b...

 

[artbosco]

6mm br or 6mm ppc

am shooting out to 300 or so yards at groundhogs in my area. which would you think be the better cartridge for this using 60 to 70 grain bullets? also how fast could i push them in a light varmint class gun? i am looking to buy a used one from mr bob white in new jersey in the coming months.any and all thoughts on this will be greatly appreciated.

If you're going to shoot a 6mm why not shoot the most accurate cartridge in the world?

Shoot the 6PPC with custom made bullets and you can be shooting groups in the teens and zeros or killing groundhogs with "one" bullet.

Regardless of class, Unlimited, Sporter, Light Varmint, or Heavy Varmint, you can push a 68 grain bullet to 3300+ fps [3380 is a good number] with N133, Lapua brass, and Federal primers.

Here's your guide to the 6PPC: http://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/6mmppc/

 

[SS427]

Considering how you defined what you would use the gun for, I would suggest a slow twist, no turn, 6mmBR. You don't need a caliber that shoots in the zeros or ones to kill groundhogs at 300 yards. The BR is easier to reload for and while it isn't as accurate as the PPC, it is going to be damn close. So unless you want to mess with fire forming brass for the 6PPC and having to turn necks, go with the BR.

 

[Forum Boss]

I'm with Otter on this one. Shoot the straight 6BR with 50-70 grainers or, if you want more velocity, run a 22 BR -- nothing fancy, just the 6BR necked down.

PM

 

[fdshuster]

gary b: As others have said, and with your "out to 300 yards or so", the 6BR would be a better choice. "Or so" may mean a little beyond 300 Yds. (?) and that's where the BR will start to have an advantage over the ppc. I've compared my 6ppc chamberings ( 4 ) with my 6BR's ( 3 ), all with slow twist barrels, 1-13.5 and 1-14, using the ever accurate 68 gr. Berger's and at 1 & 200 yds., the ppc always comes out the winner, with the smallest group sizes, but go out to 300 & they will either tie, or the BR will be a little better. At 400, the difference becomes even more evident with the BR clearly ahead of the ppc. Set it up with a tight, no-turn neck & the brass will last a very long time. And you'll want to go with the minimum freebore dimension for the "little" 68 & 70 gr. bullets. Mine are setup with zero FB.

 

[superlight93]

fdshuster is correct. My findings are the same.

 

[MarkS]

Gary,

I use a 6 BR for all my GH hunting. It is much better than 300 yds. I have one shot kills past 600 yds. For the true most accuracy round, it is the 6BR. I will shoot aggs with any PPC at 100, 200, 300, 400, 500, 600, with a 14 tw 8BR. With a 8 tw we can go to 1000 yds. The PPC is king at 100 and 200, but the 6BR is king past that.

Mark Schronce

 

[mikecr]

Or you could go 30br that close.
Just as 'accurate' & probably triple the barrel life. BIB bullets(it all starts with a bullet)

 

[skeetlee]

So you guys are saying that a 6BR is more accurate at 300 yards compared to a 6ppc using the same bullet, or type of bullet? Hmm? Thats pretty interesting! I beg to differ myself. Lee

 

[mikecr]

Yeah, I agree. There is just no way
A 30br is also more accurate to 300

For an extreme in accuracy/precision up close, you have to go under capacity so that the load is pushed hard with a fast powder from a short/stiff/slow twist barrel(with mid FB bullets).

But beyond 300 everything starts to flip around the other way.

 

[boogershooter]

Yeah but 300 turns into 400, then 400 turns into 500, and so on. 6 BR or its spin-offs!

 

[fdshuster]

Lee: I found the 6BR's & 6ppc's to be a close call for group sizes at 300, not either a clear, consistant winner, but at 400 & beyond, it's easily the 6BR for the top spot/ smallest groups. At 300 the BR might begin to show a slight advantage, and that may be because of the Boatail bullet vs. the Flatbase in the ppc. The fact that the BR will hold more powder has to also mean something. And when the winds are blowing, I'll take the 6BR at 400+ any day. And, for even better downrange performance the 6 Dasher, 6BRX and others will pass up the 6BR. Just my thoughts and experience.

 

[Ackman]

The 6BR is awfully good......outstanding accuracy with 55/58's @ 3750-3900+ and 65's at 3650-3700. If there's any difference between PPC and BR accuracy it doesn't matter to me......I don't shoot paper and don't care about agg's on chucks or prairie dogs.

 

[skeetlee]

If a 6BR were clearly more accurate at 300 yards then the top shooters in the country would be using them in 300 yard point blank competition. They dont travel and shoot for second place. The ppc wins hands down at 300 yards with 68grain-ish bullets!! Thats what i have seen anyway! Im not close minded i just believe this to be true!! At 400 yards, i wouldnt know, But i would have to assume a 6ppc shooting the same 68gr bullet that a 6BR was shooting at the same yardage, the 6ppc would still win. Accuracy trumps everything, it always has and always will!!! Lee

PS Dont get me wrong fellas. I think it is great that we can disagree, yet keep an interesting conversation. I just know that the 6ppc is a bit more accurate than a 6br, and like i say, Accuracy trumps everything. Always has and always will. No also keep in mind im not talking about a 68gr bullet in a 6ppc VS a 80gr bullet in a 6br at 600 yards. Im talking about both the 6br and 6ppc shooting the same 68gr bullet at whatever yardage. The ppc wins!! The added 150fps or whatever it may be, doesnt make up for accuracy. it simply just can not!! Peace! Lee

 

[mikecr]

Accuracy trumps everything, it always has and always will!!!

I think it's as important to recognize a 6PPC as better up close, as a 6BR at distance.
And I also disagree with the notion that accuracy trumps everything.

It obviously does not, or everyone would be shooting MOA in the ~.1s with 6PPCs/mid weight FB bullets at 600 & 1kyd.
Instead, LR accuracy of 1/2moa is yet to be consistantly achieved(by any competitor) using heaviest per cal bullets in large capacity cartridges.

Long range shooters do not build guns for greatest accuracy, but to manage wind drift degrading it.
This must be done to achieve 1/2moa at distance(atleast once in a while).
THAT is why you do not shoot 6PPCs in LR competition, even while they are incredibly accurate up close.
It doesn't have the capacity to use slow enough powders to get low ES loads with heaviest per cal high BC bullets needed to produce 1/2moa at 1kyd.
But the less accurate 6BR does

 

[RMiller]

Long range shooters do not build guns for greatest accuracy, but to manage wind drift degrading it.

This has to be the most misleading statement Ive read in a while.

Ask any 1000 yard Dasher shooter if he built his dasher for accuracy or wind drift.

I shoot 1000 yard benchrest and "EVERY" gun I build I build for accuracy first and formost. Some I build are built with wind bucking in mind but never does it trump accuracy.

 

[MarkS]

Lee,

The 6BR case is what makes it more accurate at longer ranges. Being able to go up to a 80 gr bullet, gives the BR the upper hand. The 105 gr takes it to the higher limits. This is why you see very few 6PPC shooting 600 yds benchrest. I have seen the PPC and 6mm Grendel ( 6mmAR ) shoot a 600 matches shooting heavy bullet, but they can't run with the 6BR.

Mark Schronce

 

[Geronimo Jim]

I GOT THE ANSWER.............................HAVE ONE OF EACH!

 

[skeetlee]

Mark
No offense old friend but i am not talking about heavy bullets. I thought i made that very clear! I spoke about a 6BR vs a 6ppc with the same 68gr bullet at any given distance.
Any yes the statement about a 600 or 1000 yard shooter or whatever it was, not building rifles for accuracy, but rather wind drift, was pure silliness!!! There has been a lot of useful info posted here, so nothing is lost. Hopefully the original OP cant sort out the foul! Have a great day gentlemen. Lee

 

[CatShooter]

am shooting out to 300 or so yards at groundhogs in my area.whitch would you think be the better cartrige for this using 60 to 70 grain bullets.also how fast could i push them in a light varmint class gun? i am looking to buy a used one from mr bob white in new jersy in the coming months.any and all thoughts on this will be greatly apprecated.
gary b...

Gary...

Regardless of which ever is best at short (or long) range benchrest, you really need a minute of woodchuck at 600 yards, which BOTH will easily do on a bad day, from a bad rifle.

The main considerations are:

Both are about the same level of velocity with the 6mmBr having a very slight edge.

The 6mm PPC needs case forming, and the tools/dies to do it, or you can pay close to $2 a case for someone else to make the cases for you.

The 6mmBR is plug and play - get your rifle chambered with a 0.273" or 0.274" "no turn" neck, and just load it and shoot it. Get a 12" or 10" twist, and shoot any reasonable expanding woodchuck bullet you want.