6.5x55 Brass

[moondog]

So, question regarding 6.5x55 brass toughness. I've got a 6.5x55 gwi, shoots great, chambers done by Greg, and Dave Tooley. Problem is, the Lapua brass is not holding up. Before you ask my load, my speed, and practice in reloading, is there a tougher Brass in your opinion? I believe the web area weak in that particular Lapua offering, but have nothing to compare it to.
I would like to cut and compare if anyone has other options.

 

[hoz53]

So, question regarding 6.5x55 brass toughness. I've got a 6.5x55 gwi, shoots great, chambers done by Greg, and Dave Tooley. Problem is, the Lapua brass is not holding up. Before you ask my load, my speed, and practice in reloading, is there a tougher Brass in your opinion? I believe the web area weak in that particular Lapua offering, but have nothing to compare it to.
I would like to cut and compare if anyone has other options.

that is interesting as i noticed lapua 6.5x55 brass has been available most of the time these last few years. i figured because 6.5 S was so popular in other parts of the world.
seems like lapua would make quality 6.5 S brass as those Fins use alot of it themselves.
i have some old surplus military i think- i believe its norma- it has been good brass -
if i was you id buy whats avaiable and try it. much of the samples you could get from individuals now may not be made or be the same anymore.

 

[moondog]

that is interesting as i noticed lapua 6.5x55 brass has been available most of the time these last few years. i figured because 6.5 S was so popular in other parts of the world.
seems like lapua would make quality 6.5 S brass as those Fins use alot of it themselves.
i have some old surplus military i think- i believe its norma- it has been good brass -
if i was you id buy whats avaiable and try it. much of the samples you could get from individuals now may not be made or be the same anymore.

I suspect, and may be wrong, not the first time! The 55 Brass isn't really made to withstand the pressures of modern actions and loads. I've got enough brass to get me through the couple of barrels I have. If I can't figure out an alternative, I will probably switch to a 7 of some Variation.
Love the caliber, outstanding accuracy.
I just had it out to 1600 a few days ago. It was to easy.

 

[jackieschmidt]

6.5x55 Lapua Brass is made with the exact same quality, web thickness, and alloy as all other Lapua Brass. As far as I know, Lapua uses the same brass alloy in the manufacture of all of their cases.

The brass will handle the same pressures as any other modern case manufactured by Lapua. Keep in mind, there is a lot of difference in a case manufactured by Lapua today than a case manufactured by just about anybody in 1900.

The difference is the firearms it might be fired in. This cartridge has been around over 100 years. There are rifles that simply are not designed to handle much more Han 45,000 psi.

We have a 7mm round based on the Lapua 6.5x55 case. It is a Lapua 6.5x55 necked up to 7mm, then Ackley Improved. It shoots 180 Bergers at 2920 fps. That is in the 65,000 psi range.

If you are having case issues, I would look at Something else

 

[hoz53]

6.5x55 Lapua Brass is made with the exact same quality, web thickness, and alloy as all other Lapua Brass. As far as I know, Lapua uses the same brass alloy in the manufacture of all of their cases.

The brass will handle the same pressures as any other modern case manufactured by Lapua. Keep in mind, there is a lot of difference in a case manufactured by Lapua today than a case manufactured by just about anybody in 1900.

The difference is the firearms it might be fired in. This cartridge has been around over 100 years. There are rifles that simply are not designed to handle much more Han 45,000 psi.

We have a 7mm round based on the Lapua 6.5x55 case. It is a Lapua 6.5x55 necked up to 7mm, then Ackley Improved. It shoots 180 Bergers at 2920 fps. That is in the 65,000 psi range.

If you are having case issues, I would look at Something else

thanks for that info jackie- happy new year

 

[hoz53]

I suspect, and may be wrong, not the first time! The 55 Brass isn't really made to withstand the pressures of modern actions and loads. I've got enough brass to get me through the couple of barrels I have. If I can't figure out an alternative, I will probably switch to a 7 of some Variation.
Love the caliber, outstanding accuracy.
I just had it out to 1600 a few days ago. It was to easy.

i thought of a 6.5/06 instead of a swede.
happy new year

 

[SKWERLZ]

if you’re having brass durability issues with lapua 6.5x55 brass I’d want to know specifics of your load as I’m highly suspicious.

 

[moondog]

I would be suspicious too. I do agree with Jackie on the Brass composition. I read his thread on the 7x55 and was surprised. I'm going to section a piece and check the web area dimensions.
I'll compare it to some 47 and BR Brass.
I do stand on it a bit, but not that hard.
Only time I've seen this was like 12 or so years ago. I was shooting 260 at the time, and there was a run of Lapua that had loose pockets from the get go. I sent some unfired cases to Lapua, and they replaced it. I suppose it's possible again? I have 300 new cases of a different lot # that will get formed in this barrel before I pull it and put my last one on. As an example, my 338Imp Brass is amazing in what it can handle. And I step on that HARD. Even my 300PRC Brass has been outstanding, even during load development when I had a few that were WAY too hot! I kept those 12 back to keep as foulers and they have more firings than the others. Still fine.

 

[2thdk]

Would give anything if Lapua would offer the 6.5x55 with a small primer pocket. Would bring back life to the cartridge and it most likely would gain use in other shooting disciplines.

 

[CJ6]

Lapua lists 46,000 CUP max. for the 6.5x55 Swede.

 

[Uncle Grinch]

Curious… what does Norma list as max pressure for the 6.5x55?
BTW.. I like to use brass that uses the Swede rim size as opposed to the “norm” .473.

 

[Preacher]

I run my 25 swede pretty hard with 6.5 x 55 Lapua brass and never had a problem doing it..
6 loads on the original 20 so far and expect lots more....

 

[jackieschmidt]

Lapua lists 46,000 CUP max. for the 6.5x55 Swede.

This is a liability issue. They have to list lower pressures because of the reason I stated in post #4. There are multitudes of old military and even civilian vintage rifles that are not designed to handle pressures of more modern firearms.

Two more examples are the 7x57 and 8mm Mauser. The manufacturers deliberately post low psi figures because of the exact same reason. A friend of mine built a 7x57 Ackley Imp using WW cases on a Remington SS long action and can push 140 grn Ballistic Tips at around 2950 fps.

That surpasses many listed loads for the thoroughly modern 7-08.

 

[Homerange]

This is a liability issue. They have to list lower pressures because of the reason I stated in post #4. There are multitudes of old military and even civilian vintage rifles that are not designed to handle pressures of more modern firearms.

Yup this ^
The early Swede was built around the M94 action, not as strong as the infamous M98 that can handle the increased pressures of more modern cartridges.
However in a modern rifle the Swede can be handloaded to compete and better many modern 6.5's.....

6.5×55mm Swedish - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Swedish Mauser - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[CJ6]

Yes guys, I am aware that Lapua brass can/is loaded at or above Lapuas recommended pressures. Me included.
I was simply stating their max CUP listed for that particular case.

 

[Laurie]

Curious… what does Norma list as max pressure for the 6.5x55?

Lapua lists 46,000 CUP max. for the 6.5x55 Swede.

Lapua doesn't list 46,000 CUP for the cartridge - that's the US SAAMI M.A.P. value. Lapua and Norma are C.I.P. members, the European equivalent to SAAMI which rates the SE version of the cartridge at 380 MPa (55,110 psi). SE is the higher pressure version, so not suitable for Norwegian Krags. (6.5X55 SKAN is a variation of the SE version, same pressures but minor chamber differences to provide a common chamber for competition rifles for both Norway and Sweden and was introduced with the SIG-Sauer STR200 (Scandinavian Target Rifle) introduced in 1990 as the standard competition rifle for both countries to replace the largely worn out examples based on the two countries' service rifle models.)

Norma used to provide some hot factory loads for the European market, but apparently backed off in the final years of the last century as the cartridge gained popularity in the USA, presumably to fall in line with the SAAMI pressure ceiling. For its No.2 Reloading Manual the Accurate Arms Co (pre Western Powders takeover and back when it used Czech powders) took some Norma factory cartridges and did the pressure measurements in a US compliant Piezo crystal pressure barrel coming up with 51,000 psi (not much different from 46,000 CUP actually) and used that for its handloading data tables.

It also seems at some point that the SAAMI chamber had its freebore reduced and leade angle changed increasing pressures and reducing max loads compared to the European military equivalent. Ken Waters comments on this in his Handloading magazine 'Pet Loads' report on the cartridge - he couldn't seat any bullet beyond 3.05-inch COAL without hitting the lands, and a straight 3.000-inch COAL is very common in modern reloading manuals.

The Swedish M1894 / 96 / 1938 service rifles use the same action throughout, it's the surrounding rifle that changed. The only difference is in the places of manufacture, Mauserwerke in Germany making the early 1894s until Carl Gustaf in Sweden started production. I've never seen any European source that regards the early German built rifles as weaker than the Swedish ones, although Swedish steels were particularly highly regarded for that era. Some M1938s were cut-down 96s using original receivers, but most were made by Husqvarna, and are also regarded as strong and well made. The problem with all three rifles' common action is that the Swedish 'Mauser' is a copy of the Spanish M1893 Mauser design with a few bells and whistles added by the Swedish commission that developed a new rifle - so, it's a very well-built and strong version of the 'small ring' Mausers made and sold to governments around the world under the generic M1895 designation with less inherent strength and fewer gas escape mitigating features than the improved and heavier M1898 design.

 

[CJ6]

Laurie, I was taking the CUP from lapuas loading manual, which lists it as 46000 CUP.