6.5x47 Help

[craig6547]

Hello guys.

Not posted for a while as ive been busy with work etc. I am having trouble getting a load to work for my rifle. Its a custom job with 1-8 krieger 24 ". Powder choice is Elcho 17 which is the same as RL 17 but in a different tub, all produced from the same factory. Bullet choice is 140 Amax. From my starting loads i could never get anything to be consistent. Later on i found that my chamber dimensions were a little on the tight side with .292" neck. From what i have heard and read a no turn neck for this cal is around .294" so i have started to turn my necks. At 1st it was mainly for uniformity butnow it seems that it may need to be done regardless and if s its wasted months on time and effort.

Got out last week and found a node at 39.5, 40.0 and 40.5 gn's. The 40.0 gave me just 5 fps spread and average 2763 fps. Other groups either side both gave 14 fps spread. I finally thought i had some thing there to work on so made up rounds at 40.0 with seating depth adjustments. It didnt go to plan, groups opened up and ES was crazy. hit pressure signs the deeper i seated the bullet. I did it from 15 thou to 40 thou jump. Initial seating was a 10 thou jump.

A lot of time and effort is going into these cases for prep. cases are trimmed to 1.840", necks turned to 0.0125 , im giving 1thou neck tension so sizign to .287 " with loaded round at .288".

I always seem to get 1 flier out of the 3 shots per group. Always get 2 either touching or very close with a 3rd way out, There isnt any particular order in the shots taken, but always 1 out.

Can anybody think of anything that i have maybe not thought of.

If there is any other info needed that ive not mentioned let me know.


thanks


craig

 

[Preacher]

Try a different weight bullet, from what I see with the 6.5x47 Lapua, is that most of them DO NOT like the 140 grain bullets.
I use them but it's in a Ackley chamber...
Try the 130's and your problem may just go away......

 

[XTR]

When you say the groups opened up, how much and at what range?

Are you shooting from a quality rest or off of a bipod?

How close can you hold?

All of the above can limit the ability to shoot groups, and that last one is important. It is not that hard to hold ½ MOA groups, most can do it a fair bit of the time, ¼ MOA on the other hand is not so easy. Even if the rifle is capable slight variations in form will open it up.

Lastly, you are shooting three shot groups, I once saw someone write that is two shots short of a group. I'll use 3 shots for OCW, but for seating depth I shoot at least 5 shots, and for my long range guns my intermediate step is a 10 shot test, before I shoot a simulated match with a 20 shot test.

Over lay the groups. What does it look like?

 

[mshelton]

Might sound odd but a mag primer may help your random flyer issue. Myself and another shooter both had the same problem in a 308 using Lapua small primer brass, we both switched to a CCI 450 and the flyers seemed to go away, ES tightened up also.

 

[craig6547]

i already use CCI 450's .

I shoot from a Atlas bipod, tried a bench rest but couldnt get on with it. Groups tightened up switching back to the bipod.

This is still under load developent at this stage with the fliers, but i just seem to not be able to get rid of them. I always get 2 touching or close then the other just openes up the group to 0.8" or there abouts.

 

[XTR]

I always get 2 touching or close then the other just openes up the group to 0.8" or there abouts.

I assume you are shooting at 100 yards.

Think about this for a minute. If your entire setup, shooter included, is capable of shooting .5 MOA. At 100 yards that's .5 inches center to center of the widest spread, that's .25MOA from the center of the group to the edge. Statistically your shots would have a random probability of hitting anywhere in that ½ inch circle.

Now, that circle of your center to center dispersion has a radius of .25 inches, that is less than the your bullets .26 diameter, so it's going to be fairly common that you put two shots on the same side of the circle, now you have two touching, the 3rd bullet is in the other side of the circle and bang, you have a "flyer". You don't have flyers, you are defining you group.

Two shots touching is less than .26 center to center. To keep them together (and not in a line) you need to be shooting about .3. Unless you have a ¼ MOA gun and load you will almost never get 3 shots in one hole anywhere but on the internet or at a BR competition.

That doesn't mean that you can't get your rifle to shoot better, what it means is that your three shot groups don't have "flyers". Shoot 5 shot groups and see what it looks like, then the "flyers" will be more obvious.

 

[mshelton]

If it has a brake have you checked to see if the bullet may be grazing it, friend had that problem once, 3rd shot flyers, heat from the first 2 was just enough to move a brake that didn't have enough clearance to barely fuzz the 3rd bullet.

Also is it a 700 action?

 

[craig6547]

yeah it is a 700 action and i use a sound mod. Its a custom job to 6.5 specific.


Maybe i am asking too much out of the rifle then and possibly myself as well. I just feel the rifle can do better, or should i say i should be able to do better.

 

[Patch700]

I had a 6.5x284 that shot 140 A-max's quite well but it wasnt without a lot of bullet sorting... Some lots were ok and some were not so ok ( bearing surface wise )

 

[craig6547]

is this a common thing then with amax bullets

 

[mshelton]

yeah it is a 700 action and i use a sound mod. Its a custom job to 6.5 specific.


Maybe i am asking too much out of the rifle then and possibly myself as well. I just feel the rifle can do better, or should i say i should be able to do better.

Nah, lots of winning benchrest groups were shot with a 700.

I went threw one just this last week that gave me absolutely hell. Lilja barrel, jewel trigger, NF scope, HS stock, barrel work was done by one of the best smiths around but it kept putting up lousy groups. I went through everything, in the end it turned out to be the mag box. May or may not be your issue but it's pretty easy to check, just pull the mag box out and try shooting some groups. Sometimes those things just don't have the clearance they need and bind against the action and bottom metal.

 

[hogpatrol]

My 6.5x47, 1-8.5 shoots best with 130 Berger VLDs, CCI 450, 39.7gr. R17, Lapua brass, .002 NT, .005 jam. Speeds are 2850 with ES less than 5.

 

[dooley]

Hi craig,
I have almost the same set up as yours rem 700 action, aics stock, 6.5x47 but longer barrel than yours, although this will not make any difference to accuracy, except at the longer ranges, I also use 40grs of elcho 17, but with berger 130gr bullets, most groups are 1/4 moa, I tried 140gr a maxes but found they did not group like the 130gr bullets,I have an accuracy international in 260 cal and also found it prefered the 130gr bergers, but the 260 also liked the 140 gr bergers, I have spoken to others that had 6.5x47s and they also stopped using the 140gr a maxes, so its probably not your shooting, just try some 130gr bergers, you will also gain quite a bit of velocity.
Regards, dooley UK

 

[Patch700]

Wether or not it's a problem with the bullets I would have to agree with a few of the above posts regarding not sending another 2rnds into your 3shot groups... Either way it's going to give you more info on whats really happening . There are some that will scrap a load if it doesnt produce dueces within 3 shots , but 5 or 10 will tell a story as to why they arent doing what you'd like them to.

Lets assume you had 2 printing in virtually the same hole and the third went 1/2 high or even 3/4 , but the fourth and fifth tied everything together and showed a tight horizontal group plagued with verticle... If it's printing that way consistently then it may not be a bullet problem at all.

 

[craig6547]

Re: 6.5x47 Help ****UPDATE ****

Guys.

Last night i made up some more rounds charged with 39.5 gn of Elcho 17 with various seating depths for tests this time 5 shot groups as i took that advise from the posts from last night. This morning i thought id make up more test rounds but this time with 130gn Berger VLD Hunting with RL-15. I bought the bullets and powder when i 1st had problems getting the 140's to group as a back up. Test batches consisted of 36.5 - 40gn in 0.5 increments. I gave them a 10 thou jump at 2.286" to the ogive.

I ran the 140's 1st to see how they grouped but they were just awful, 1- 1.5" . At one point i thought i was onto a winner as i had 2 touching then one just off, next touching the 2 giving nice tight 3 shots and one off then the next one was way off. That was 10 thou jump, 20 thou jump started good with 2 in the same hole then other 3 way off. 30 thou was just crap.

I turned to the 130 bergers now and now i dont think ill be turning away from them !!!!
I ran 4 fouling rounds of 36.5gn. 1st one as a sighter then i made the adjustment and 3 shots were really good. I then ran the test rounds and i was gob smacked. 36.5 produced .5" 37.0 produced .2" and 37.5 produced .5 " all with the same POI on the targets. I hit pressure signs at 38.0 gn so stopped there. 37.0 was basically a one hole group with 2753 fps average. As i run a 24" 1-8 Krieger i thought this was speed was average and im happy with it. Ive made up another 15 rounds with 37.0 gn and ill test them again to see if i can get the same results or close and if i do then I have my load for the rifle.....finally !!!

Just wish i listened to the others that always spoke about the 130's. I just didnt want to as i had so many 140's at hand. But oh well just me being stubborn about it.




craig

 

[gotcha]

Craig, You seem to be on the right track My experiences seem to duplicate yours ( 140's vs 130's) Try jamming the 130 Bergers about .010".......... It might make your smile even bigger. Also, keep an eye out for carbon ring build up with the RL-15. It might simply be my barrel but I get carbon ring at about 50 to 55 rounds. Good luck.

 

[craig6547]

Ill keep an eye out for the carbon ring. Ive got a borescope so i can have a look with that. Good shout bud thanks.




Craig

 

[jnyfeler]

I always seem to get 1 flier out of the 3 shots per group.

If you can't manage even three consecutive shots in a small group, I'd say it's a bad load regardless of what the chrono says.

Jeff

 

[Bolt Bender]

I did not see where your twist rate was mentioned. It might just be that simple.
I load for a 6x47 Lapua, a necked down version of the 6.5x47 Lapua. It has a 1:8 twist and puts 105 Berger VLD's well under a minute af angle at 100 yards.

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=11182/GunTechdetail/Calibers-and-Twists

 

[Erik Cortina]

Do not jam bullets in a hunting gun.