6.5x284 HELP!

[boa454]

Hi guys,
need some help! just picked up my new 6.5x284 on a rem 700 action mcmillan stock shillen barrel etc, got it home and straight to the reloading bench and hit my first problem....i'm using lapua 6.5x284 norma brass which prior to neck sizing has an outside neck diameter of .290 and an inside neck diamater of .259.
once run through the redding neck sizing die (which was very hard to do) the outside diameter moves to .292 and the inside diameter moves to .261.
now the fun part....
i made a dummy round using a nosler 120gn ballistic tip (only projectile i could source locally in a rush!) and when i pulled it out noticed the neck had bulged quite badly, the shoulder had rounded and the case would not even fit in the neck sizing die due to the bulge in the shoulder/base of neck and the outside diameter had expanded to .300 which due to a .295 chamber would not even chamber....
i then neck turned a case down .006 which would chamber but then jams the projectile way up into the lands and leaves the projectile in the barrel upon removing the case.
due to the shoulder/nck bulge i cant seat it any deeper (or even resize the case) and im not too sure what to do next....i thought about neck reaming but the diameter is already only .005 less than the .264 projectile..
any help would be greatly appreciated cos i really wanna play with my new toy haha!
cheers
Boa

 

[dennisinaz]

I would use a KM expander mandrel and run the cases across it first. You may want to lube the bullets lightly with imperial before seating the first time. I can't remember what my 6.5-284 brass measures new but it was never a problem to seat bullets. If you are driving them into the lands when chambering then seat them deeper before chambering.

What is the neck on your chamber? Is it standard Norma or something tighter?

Don't turn your necks that thin. Fix your problem instead of exacerbating it like that.

 

[bozo699]

Boa,
Welcome to the forum, Sounds almost like your expander ball is to big, I have never had this problem loading for a 6.5*284, do you have a expanding die with a .264 mandrel? if so then remove your decapping rod assembly and size your brass without it then run it through the expanding mandrel, if it works try reinstalling your decapping assembly, lube inside the neck and try another one in your die and see how it does. Forster dies are real picky where the expander plug is positioned but the redding die isn't usually, do you by chance have your neck die adjusted to low in the press and are crushing it a little when neck sizing? best of luck and let us know what you find.
Wayne.

 

[Rtheurer]

BOA

Can you give us a Picture of the bulged and the shoulder that has rounded? As they say a picture is worth a Thousand Words.

I think Wayne has hit on maybe the issue with the shoulder rounding issue. You may be pushing the brass into the NECK SIZING die to far, crushing the Shoulder and pushing the Neck Bushing into the Neck Shoulder Junction
Virgin Brass is always small in the neck when it comes from the factory. Its irrelavent to the issue. The first thing I do is us a K&M expander iron to expand the necks and get them round and straight before I do ANYTHING else. Use alot of lube in the neck if there that tight, you might gall the expander ball if you dont. You might be pulling it out like a piece of Taffy. But I doubt it.
Your loaded dummy round measurments are the important and relavent one. Your saying your loaded neck reading is .300 That seems Awful thick for a 6.5mm 120gr bullet shoved into Lapua brass? I have never had Lapua 6.5X285 brass that thick ( or Norma for that matter) in the neck. Something dont seem right there. You sure youhave 6.5mm bullets?

I used to run a .294 neck in my chambers and have since switched to the .297 no turn neck chamber. My loaded ammo ussualy runs in the .295 range with Lapua Brass. So I believe you will have to skim turn your brass down a couple of thou and that should give you a nice clean round neck for your tight neck chamber.

LOADED NECK diameter is what you need to look at.

Of course your getting a bulge when seating the bullet. Its like a BOA eating a cat,the cats bigger than the BOA so it bulges. Ha! Hence the expander mandrel before you start. So is your Neck Bushing a .292? Thats a pretty good amount of neck tension. Not overly excessive but a getting up there.

You really got me puzzled with the loaded round of .300 neck diameter.

Russ T

 

[boa454]

thanks for the info guys!
ok im using the redding deluxe deluxe die set in 6.5x284 norma i dont have an expander ill look into getting one (await question on how to operate haha) there is no discernable difference in shoulder/neck area after being through the neck sizing die its only after i seat the projectile, a nosler 120gn ballistic tip (.264) diameter that the neck bulges and the projectile jams in the ensuing compressed shoulder area...its that tight i cant even get the shell into the neck sizing die afterwards. ive had a chat to a guru (nick harvey) and am sending him some of the brass to play with he thinks its over annealed and too soft so he will try it on his dies and in his 6.5x284 and get back to me....this is my first trouble with reloading ive only reloaded for my 22-250 ackley and its a breeze compared to this!!
haha liked the boa eating the cat analogy too.....thats whats puzzling me as the outside diameter goes from .291 to .300 when the inside diameter is .261 which is .003 smaller than the .264 projectile, ill try and attach a picture of 4 shells, 1 which is out of the box, 1 has been through the neck sizing die, 1 has the 120 gn projectile seated halfway down neck and 1 which has had the projectile seated as far down the neck as it will go then been removed both the last shells have been neck turned as well

 

[boa454]

hopefully this pic works!

 

[bozo699]

hopefully this pic works!

Boa,
Do you have a mic? I think you have .270 bullets or something, what I see in your picture is you have collapsed your shoulder do to too much seating force needed to seat the bullet.
.264 +.014 X 2 for neck thickness= .292 loaded round. but if you had .270 bullets it would be .277+.028=.305
You need to measure your bullets!
Wayne.

 

[DennisH]

there is no discernable difference in shoulder/neck area after being through the neck sizing die its only after i seat the projectile

Sounds to me like your seating die is not set up corectly. What is your COAL and what COAL are you trying to achive?

I am not an expert, but just barely seat a bullet in the case. Don't go all the way down with the press lever. 1/2 way to start. See what the round looks like and companre to your COAL goal. If you can obtain your COAL by controlling the lever position, then you have your seating die out of adjustment.

Again, I am not familiar with your seating die, but something is out of adjustment to cause this situation only when seating. Back off the seating depth either by backing out the die from the press or usuing the depth adjustment on the seating die.

I think you have .270 bullets or something,

Above also highly possible!

 

[boa454]

hi wayne, was in the process of setting up a dummy round to figure out coal and seating depth when i ran into this problem, they are definitely not .270 projectiles, they are 120gn nosler 6.5 ballistic tips (.264) the redding die is set in the press so that the shellholder just touches the bottom of the die at the full stroke of the ram...it doesnt matter what depth the the projectile is seated as it is expanding the neck right from the word go... you can see the difference between the shell with the projectile still in the neck the pressure ring halfway down the neck to the shell to the right where the projectile was seated to the shoulder

 

[Minesweeper3433]

;D 1+1+1=3 or in this case 4!

 

[Rtheurer]

This just does not add up. Did some 270 bullets get into a .264box before they shipped? That would be real bad!

Deluxe Die set you mentioned, is it Type S with a Neck Bushing? If it is then your bushing looks to be too small? If it is not the Type S neck Die with no Neck bushing then its still sizing the brass down to small for your brass creating way to much force to seat the bullet and like Wayne says your pushing the Shoulder back with the bullet seating die. Wowser.

Im still having a hard time wraping my head around the .300 Loaded round neck diameter. I just have not seen Brass that thick on Lapua 6.5X284 brass.
Dennis or Wayne have you seen Brass that thick in this case from Lapua?

Are you sure your ready for a tight neck Rifle?

RussT

 

[pmarauder]

If you are sure that you have a .295 neck in your chamber. I would first run a KM expander mandrel through the neck (new piece of brass) and neck turn it to .014 thickness. .264 + .014 + .014 = .292. I would then get a Redding full length bushing die w/ a .290 bushing installed. Now remove your expander ball from the de-capping rod and resize your fresh turned case. When seating your bullet, you will now have .002 neck tension for a starting point. If it still wont chamber, then you need to measure your headspace with a shoulder bump gauge. Its either that, or you dont have a .295 chamber.
Derek

 

[bozo699]

If you are sure that you have a .295 neck in your chamber. I would first run a KM expander mandrel through the neck (new piece of brass) and neck turn it to .014 thickness. .264 + .014 + .014 = .292. I would then get a Redding full length bushing die w/ a .290 bushing installed. Now remove your expander ball from the de-capping rod and resize your fresh turned case. When seating your bullet, you will now have .002 neck tension for a starting point. If it still wont chamber, then you need to measure your headspace with a shoulder bump gauge. Its either that, or you dont have a .295 chamber.
Derek

I have not shot a 6.5*284 for over a year but I own one, I can't remember off the top of my head for sure but as I recall the brass thickness was between .014 and ,015 thick from the Lapua box, I gave a light neck turn, about 70%,...less then .0005 per side and as I recall I had a loaded neck diameter of .291-.292, I believe I was using a .290 bushing that gave me between .001 and .0015 neck tension, I could seat my 139 Lapua Scenars easily with the palm of my hand with my Wilson seating die, I did not have a arbor press then and just used my hand, no hammer was needed, if you have mic'ed the bullets at .264-.2645 then the only answer is your sizing die is oversizing them! You can definitely see the buldge in the neck as the bullet is being seated and I can only assume the case on the far right was one you pulled the bullet after seating because you can see the shoulder has collapsed on you from what I can only guess was too much neck tension, instead of going off memory I will head down to the loading room later and measure a loaded round and my factory Savage f-class chamber but I believe it is also a .295 chamber, there is just so many things that can cause this problem,...mostly being too large of projectile or oversizing.
Wayne.

 

[nmhunter]

try backing the die off of the shell holder several turns and then partial seat and measure until you get the COAL you are wanting, ( you will then need to back the die and seater out till you get the desired setting. By the way what color tip is your 6.5 BT's?
tomand

 

[rcerro]

Back the die a full turn out of the press.

 

[dennisinaz]

For some reason your bullets are collapsing the necks. It is one of two things, the neck is too small for the bullet OR the necks are too soft( not likely). LUBE a bullet and try it again. If that doesn't help, you need to open the neck up more.

The 6.5-284 has Fairly sharp neck and is easy to collapse. I too, cannot wrap my head around a seated bullet neck diamter of .300. I have tried 4 different brands of brass and nothing is over about .293-.294" Most is closer to .292". LUBE a bullet and try it again.

 

[boa454]

thanks for the info guys....ive spent a long night going over everything the brass is in spec so i went to the dies and the seating die was pitted inside so im assuming its been grabbing the projectile/neck on the way up and causing the neck/shoulder problems, just went and got a new die and its running smooth now! just to be sure im going to try some woodleigh weldcore 140gns in it.....again thanls very much for all your help guys i really appreciate it much easier to get up a steep learning curve if you got people pushing!!
ended up with a OAL of 2.935 which seems to be a pretty deep seating with the nosler, running 45 grains of 2209 to run the barrel in, then trying 45.5, 46, 46.5, 47.....says 50 is the max just not sure what pressures im looking at yet so im staying fairly mild...any tips for the 140 woodleigh? ive never heard of the woodleighs but they are claiming an SD of .287 and a BC of .444......time to get my remington on!

 

[DennisH]

the seating die was pitted inside so im assuming its been grabbing the projectile/neck on the way up and causing the neck/shoulder problems,

It sounded like a problem with the seating die from the start, glad you got it going!