Not sure what category the grendel belongs in, it's 6.5 but certainly not "big stuff" Anyway. I'm having a bolt gun built in this caliber 1-8 twist. I need some pet loads, trying to save time and money shooting a bunch of different components. It's fun but at nearly $30.00 a pound for powder, $40.00 for 100 bullets, $100 for 100 peices of brass. Thanks for any help.
6.5 Grendel load data/pet loads
- Thread starter Buzzsaw
- Start date
Buzzsaw-
People have been having good results with 107 to 123 gr. bullets on top of Win 748, AA 2520, H335, Ramshot Tac & X-terminator, Varget, etc. I suggest you go to the reloading page on the 6.5 Grendal forum. Here is the link:
http://www.65grendel.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=11
My personal favorites with a 26" 1:8 ss barrel is Win 748, or AA2520 with 107 SMK, 120 SMK, and the new 123 A-max.
But each barrel is different, so you will have to experiment to find that "sweet spot" of powder, bullets, seating depth, COAL, MV and pressure that your barrel will like to get the smallest groups.
People have been having good results with 107 to 123 gr. bullets on top of Win 748, AA 2520, H335, Ramshot Tac & X-terminator, Varget, etc. I suggest you go to the reloading page on the 6.5 Grendal forum. Here is the link:
http://www.65grendel.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=11
My personal favorites with a 26" 1:8 ss barrel is Win 748, or AA2520 with 107 SMK, 120 SMK, and the new 123 A-max.
But each barrel is different, so you will have to experiment to find that "sweet spot" of powder, bullets, seating depth, COAL, MV and pressure that your barrel will like to get the smallest groups.
Thanks KTB, I have ordered some Amax's and have some Berger 130 VLD's. lapua brass, all the powders. all, I need is my rifle, it's a couple months away from completion . It will have a 24" 1-8 twist barrel. I found a pound of the new IMR XBR powder to try in the Grendel and .223. Should be fun!
there are two different perspectives on loading this cartridge
In an AR-15, there are platform imposed limitations due to weakness in the bolt that significantly limits the operating pressure of loads that can be used. Further, the AR15 places a COL limitation of 2.255 inches so you loose powder capacity with bullets shoved in the case.
In a bolt gun, so much depends on what chamber you are using Alexander Arms 6.5 Grendel AR15 chamber, the 6.5 CSS chamber or the 6.5 PPCX chamber.
The 6.5 PPCX chamber throws the AR15 book out because you are no longer bound to the 2.255 restriction. For example, in my 6.5 PPCX,,, the 108 Lapua is seated to a OAL of 2.365 inches and the base of the boat tail sits at the neck shoulder junction. Needless to say, that opens a lot of powder capacity that is lost shoving bullets back in the case in an AR. Also, the 6.5 PPCX is running only a .292 neck vs the .300" neck of the AA chamber or the .295 neck of the 6.5 CSS.
I have used the 6.5 PPCX for many many years and still use it today all the way to 1000 yards in f-class. My two preferred long range loads use either the 108 Lapua Scenar or the Cauterucio 114 VLD on top of VV powders. I don't publish these loads because they are suited ONLY to quality bolt guns, not to the AR15, and I dont want people taking these loads and stuffing them in an AR.
I will share my bolt gun loads with individuals who keep them for the personal use in bolt guns. There is a picture floating around here somewhere of a 1.18" group shot at 660 yards in my bolt gun using the Lapua 108.
Feel free to email me if you want to discuss your bolt project.
In an AR-15, there are platform imposed limitations due to weakness in the bolt that significantly limits the operating pressure of loads that can be used. Further, the AR15 places a COL limitation of 2.255 inches so you loose powder capacity with bullets shoved in the case.
In a bolt gun, so much depends on what chamber you are using Alexander Arms 6.5 Grendel AR15 chamber, the 6.5 CSS chamber or the 6.5 PPCX chamber.
The 6.5 PPCX chamber throws the AR15 book out because you are no longer bound to the 2.255 restriction. For example, in my 6.5 PPCX,,, the 108 Lapua is seated to a OAL of 2.365 inches and the base of the boat tail sits at the neck shoulder junction. Needless to say, that opens a lot of powder capacity that is lost shoving bullets back in the case in an AR. Also, the 6.5 PPCX is running only a .292 neck vs the .300" neck of the AA chamber or the .295 neck of the 6.5 CSS.
I have used the 6.5 PPCX for many many years and still use it today all the way to 1000 yards in f-class. My two preferred long range loads use either the 108 Lapua Scenar or the Cauterucio 114 VLD on top of VV powders. I don't publish these loads because they are suited ONLY to quality bolt guns, not to the AR15, and I dont want people taking these loads and stuffing them in an AR.
I will share my bolt gun loads with individuals who keep them for the personal use in bolt guns. There is a picture floating around here somewhere of a 1.18" group shot at 660 yards in my bolt gun using the Lapua 108.
Feel free to email me if you want to discuss your bolt project.
Bill Bowers
Silver $$ Contributor
I had really good luck with VV 133 and Lapua 123 HPBT. I believe I used 27.2gr and 2.260 COAL. I found this to be equal to the AA ammo with the same bullet. In my 28" I was getting just over 2600fps.
As aways, start with a lower charge and work your way up.
Bill Bowers
Greencastle, PA
As aways, start with a lower charge and work your way up.
Bill Bowers
Greencastle, PA
Been out and about on the Douglas AZ range. Using economical AR Stoner 20" and 24" (Gen 2) barrels in Uppers made by or from AR Stoner components, I've pushed and exceeded some limits, and discovered things about the 6.5 Grendel that are not so apparent if all one pays clear attention to is case markings/pressure indicators.
I've been using Speer 120gr Gold Dot bullets, Starline brass, WSR, and W748. Book max charges vary rather a bit. I had arbitrarily set 30.3gr as my absolute max, but significant lack of serious pressure signs tempted me higher. At 30.6gr the extractor hook sheared clear on the first shot. Case examination showed what suggested moderate pressure. Clearly, there was more going on.
Going by Speer data, I was already 2.0gr above max. One other set of indicators was case sooting and rather bad accuracy. I had assumed case sooting was a symptom of case neck seal failure. I was quite (nearly literally) dead wrong. More astute advice tells me that what I was actually seeing was premature bolt unlocking while powder was still being burned, and that definitely would put accuracy straight into the pit.
The testing was being done with the 24" barrel, which compounded the issue by prolonging dwell.
Going forward; case pressure signs don't tell the whole story, and blithely exceeding max published loads because the cases look 'safe' is stupidity of the first order. W748 and 120gr Gold Dot max should be kept right where Speer says, at 28.8gr. I was a lucky boy despite myself.
Further, the JP Enhanced 6.5 Grendel Extractor will be applied to the 24" barrel because of the longer dwell present. Bullets will be the Speer 90gr TNT for that barrel, and load data will conform to Speer load data limits. Speer 120gr .264 Gold Dot bullets will be switched to the 20" barrel for testing, and published Speer load data limits (25.7gr-28.6gr W748) will apply. While W748 will continue in testing, Ramshot TAC will be added.
Greg Langelius, Pearce, AZ
I've been using Speer 120gr Gold Dot bullets, Starline brass, WSR, and W748. Book max charges vary rather a bit. I had arbitrarily set 30.3gr as my absolute max, but significant lack of serious pressure signs tempted me higher. At 30.6gr the extractor hook sheared clear on the first shot. Case examination showed what suggested moderate pressure. Clearly, there was more going on.
Going by Speer data, I was already 2.0gr above max. One other set of indicators was case sooting and rather bad accuracy. I had assumed case sooting was a symptom of case neck seal failure. I was quite (nearly literally) dead wrong. More astute advice tells me that what I was actually seeing was premature bolt unlocking while powder was still being burned, and that definitely would put accuracy straight into the pit.
The testing was being done with the 24" barrel, which compounded the issue by prolonging dwell.
Going forward; case pressure signs don't tell the whole story, and blithely exceeding max published loads because the cases look 'safe' is stupidity of the first order. W748 and 120gr Gold Dot max should be kept right where Speer says, at 28.8gr. I was a lucky boy despite myself.
Further, the JP Enhanced 6.5 Grendel Extractor will be applied to the 24" barrel because of the longer dwell present. Bullets will be the Speer 90gr TNT for that barrel, and load data will conform to Speer load data limits. Speer 120gr .264 Gold Dot bullets will be switched to the 20" barrel for testing, and published Speer load data limits (25.7gr-28.6gr W748) will apply. While W748 will continue in testing, Ramshot TAC will be added.
Greg Langelius, Pearce, AZ
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Great timing Greg. Im just going down that path. Thanks for pointing the way.
Tom
Tom
rockhound78
Silver $$ Contributor
In my 24" Model 1 sales barrel, I use benchmark with the 90 TNT. Three shots will cloverleaf @100yds.
Very interesting - thank you for sharing. I hadn't heard of the PPCX form, but it sounds good. I'm currently playing with an off the shelf Howa Mini 1500 Oryx bolt-action Grendel whose chamber is obviously Alexander / AR and nowhere near that of the PPCX. Allowable COALs are only a little longer than those of the AR driven 2.26", and even if the freebore allows, magazine use won't. (Not that I use the magazine, all rounds single-loaded which the Howa action accepts easily and feeds well.)
For some reason, the Howa barrel only produces so-so results with the 108 Scenar, but does very well with the 120gn Lapua Scenar-L. I'll try the 107 and 120gn MKs later this year alongside the 123gn Scenar, a long-time favourite of mine in the 6.5X47L, and 260 Rem classes of 6.5s. So far as powders go best results to date are with Viht N133 and Ramshot Tac. The often recommended IMR-8208 XBR wasn't as good for me and sees compressed loads to get decent MVs in the Howa's 20-inch. On the basis of recommendations elsewhere I'll try Alliant AR-Comp and Hodgdon CFE223 in due course, the former if I can find any as it's rare in the UK. On the basis of QuickLOAD modeling, I'll also see how Lovex SO62 (Shooters World 'Precision' in the US) works out as it looks good in the program. (Note to QuickLOAD users - do not trust results with the default case capacity. It really is essential to use the fireformed overfill water capacity on your chosen make of brass and in your own chamber in such a small capacity cartridge.)
Until now I've used Lapua brass, but got some recent PPU (now small primer but retains the larger 0.079" dia. flash-hole) out of curiosity. It is heavier than Lapua, has a very much larger weight range, and neck thickness consistency is poor with the worst example (out of 100 pieces) seeing 0.003" variation around the circumference, against all Lapua running under a thou' and half of them at 0.0005".
............ as an add-on for anybody using or contemplating using the 123gn Sierra MK in the Grendel or for that matter any other cartridge.
Sierra has changed the bullet shape significantly between the older pre components shortage period design when it temporarily stopped production and the current reintroduced 'pointed' model, that is 'pointed' as in factory-closed meplat, nothing to do with 'plastic' tips.
This is one of the many useful (I'd go further and say vital) bits of information garnered from Bryan Litz's Applied Ballistics LLC book Ballistic Performance of Rifle Bullets 3rd edition that gives drawings and range test results for many SMKs in new 'pointed' form alongside the older versions. (Some longstanding designs are unchanged bar the meplat whilst others have undergone a redesign.)
The new model has a significantly shorter bearing surface, a longer neck section, and shorter OAL than its predecessor. It has moved a bit closer to secant / VLD form with a 0.72 Rt/R value for shank to nose junction 'sharpness' compared to a very much more tangent form 0.85 for the older model. The base to ogive measures considerably less in the newer model. Put these together and not only will your seater die likely place them at different COALs, but the ogive to lands relationship is quite different. (The new design has a usefully higher BC from the changes.)
Sierra has changed the bullet shape significantly between the older pre components shortage period design when it temporarily stopped production and the current reintroduced 'pointed' model, that is 'pointed' as in factory-closed meplat, nothing to do with 'plastic' tips.
This is one of the many useful (I'd go further and say vital) bits of information garnered from Bryan Litz's Applied Ballistics LLC book Ballistic Performance of Rifle Bullets 3rd edition that gives drawings and range test results for many SMKs in new 'pointed' form alongside the older versions. (Some longstanding designs are unchanged bar the meplat whilst others have undergone a redesign.)
The new model has a significantly shorter bearing surface, a longer neck section, and shorter OAL than its predecessor. It has moved a bit closer to secant / VLD form with a 0.72 Rt/R value for shank to nose junction 'sharpness' compared to a very much more tangent form 0.85 for the older model. The base to ogive measures considerably less in the newer model. Put these together and not only will your seater die likely place them at different COALs, but the ogive to lands relationship is quite different. (The new design has a usefully higher BC from the changes.)
Lone Hunter
Silver $$ Contributor
Thread is from 2010 but new info is always appreciated. Mine likes Hornady 123 ELD M very well 8208 powder. The Sierra 120 pro Hunter I never could get to shoot that great. I will give the 123 SMK's a shot.
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I've loaded for three AR's in 6.5G and the first thing I have to say is be aware, for that purpose, the cartridge holds 20% more capacity than a standard 5.56/.223. It puts as much a limit on the lower end, especially with slow powders, as it does the upper end. Slow powders that are temp sensitive tend to leave swipe on the cases, yet don't show other high pressure signs. AA2520 was the worst offender. Best velocity in the summer. In winter it looked like a high pressure load. The powder burned too far down the barrel and had too high pressure at the gas port. Yet many interpret that as high initial pressure.
That said, the OP stated he was wanting a bolt gun. I know the post is ten years old. That makes sense, and I've wanted to start that project for several years. However, I have changed my intent to doing the 6mm version. Just that you can get into more useful territory with the best BC bullets for caliber. .224 cal is on the plate now also with uber high BC bullets coming out. You have to scale back on the 6.5's to the 100-123 gr. and even then velocity suffers in comparison.
That said, the OP stated he was wanting a bolt gun. I know the post is ten years old. That makes sense, and I've wanted to start that project for several years. However, I have changed my intent to doing the 6mm version. Just that you can get into more useful territory with the best BC bullets for caliber. .224 cal is on the plate now also with uber high BC bullets coming out. You have to scale back on the 6.5's to the 100-123 gr. and even then velocity suffers in comparison.
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My two fast and accurate loads in a Ruger Predator 8 twist bolt action.
107 TMK's, Hornady brass, 30.2 grains of H 335, Rem. 7 1/2 primers, 2670 FPS.
123 ELD M , Fed. Match primers, 29 grains of 8208 XBR, Hornady brass, 2600 FPS
Both loads .010" off lands.
I guess I've been off the deep end of Grendel for a while; I've got some odd loads that work really well for me; so why not share.
Fist off; I'm loading for three. ARs and Bolt (Howa mini).
Second: I still haven't bought in to the Lapua brass in an AR. I just don't want to lose it.
My ARs are a bit nasty on brass overgassed, but reliable. Early on I acquired a bunch of 7.62x39 brass; and I resized to 6.5G. fire-form load is a discontinued 85gr Sierra; now to be a 90gr Speer. Feeds well in the ARs and laser like to 300y. Approx. 28gr of h335.
Once formed; 120gr matching; nosler BT, SP, or whatever I can get cheap. Consistently sub MOA at 100y with 28.5gr WC846 (blc2). Each lot is different, start at 27.0 and work up carefully. CCI200 primers. Makes a 30round mag not so hard on the wallet.
Lapua / Alexander brass; CCI450; approx. 29.0 CFE-223 and a 123. These are the brass cases I don't want the AR to pitch away.
My bolt (Howa mini) will let me seat the 123 out to 2.320; not a ton more, but I'll take advantage when loading for it.
-Mac
Fist off; I'm loading for three. ARs and Bolt (Howa mini).
Second: I still haven't bought in to the Lapua brass in an AR. I just don't want to lose it.
My ARs are a bit nasty on brass overgassed, but reliable. Early on I acquired a bunch of 7.62x39 brass; and I resized to 6.5G. fire-form load is a discontinued 85gr Sierra; now to be a 90gr Speer. Feeds well in the ARs and laser like to 300y. Approx. 28gr of h335.
Once formed; 120gr matching; nosler BT, SP, or whatever I can get cheap. Consistently sub MOA at 100y with 28.5gr WC846 (blc2). Each lot is different, start at 27.0 and work up carefully. CCI200 primers. Makes a 30round mag not so hard on the wallet.
Lapua / Alexander brass; CCI450; approx. 29.0 CFE-223 and a 123. These are the brass cases I don't want the AR to pitch away.
My bolt (Howa mini) will let me seat the 123 out to 2.320; not a ton more, but I'll take advantage when loading for it.
-Mac
A very long time!
I have the same Model 1 upper. Haven't shot it in a long time until recently. Decided to see what I could get out of it. Think I'm close to the right combination....
That's a great combination in my AR Grendel, too. IMR 8208 seems to perform very well in this case and the 123 gr. Hornadys shoot tight. The only thing better than this combination in my rifle is 8208 and the 107 gr. SMK. Most brief 'load development' I've ever done - first charge of 29.0 grains threw five into a dime-sized hole at 100 yards. All done!
The 107s shoot almost impossibly well in my rifle. I hope you have a similar outcome.
I'm using Lapua brass, Tula SRM primers and loaded to 2.260" OAL. 29.0 grs. was the ticket for me but there's headroom here - that's a fairly modest load.
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