6.5 creedmoor brass concentricity

[Robert Robinson]

My first post (thread?) so take it easy. For that matter first post anywhere. Im new to the 6.5 creedmoor but not new to reloading. My goal is to shoot the high BC 140s, 130s and less not a challenge and defeats the purpose of having this barrel, 8 twist actually 7 3/4. Started out with starline brass (have the means to measure concentricity of unloaded brass) and 21% measured 0.001 or less total runout. 1 measured 0.007 and everything else in between. Spent 5x more money and 2% measured 1 or less with the high being 0.010. My method of measuring is a hornady concentricity gauge fitted with a mandrel on the bullet end and the gauge riding just below the shoulder. My experience is that you can shoot it, resize it, anneal it, mandrel it and it will still be crooked. Somebody please tell me Im going down the wrong road.

Thanks in advance.

 

[dreever]

Robert,

You can go crazy with all of the voodoo involved with loading perfect brass. I used to shoot benchrest so I know of what I speak. You can weigh sort your brass, neck turn, sort your bullets, weigh your primers, yada yada yada.
You specifically mentioned it's a 6.5 Creedmoor which never claimed to be a benchrest cartridge. My advice to you is select the best quality brass you can buy which in my opinion is Alpha Munitions or Lapua both of which require minimal prep. If you feel better neck turning go for it. Select the brand of bullet that shoots the best in your rifle and have fun.
There are to many environmental and human variables to worry about. Don't believe me? Separate your worst ammunition as far as concentricity goes from what you consider the best. Have someone help you do a blind test by giving you the ammunition at the range while you shoot groups and I bet you'll not be able to tell the difference.
There are those that strive for perfection in their reloading practices because they enjoy it. Great, more power to them. I used to be one of them myself.


Danny

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Little advice from me to you. Get good dies (whidden fl bushing die) and throw your concentricity gauge away. With good dies you dont even need to go check. And checking new brass trying to sort it by concentricity is useless. Unless its been fired in your chamber a couple times dont even concern yourself

 

[Robert Robinson]

Thank each of you for the ideas. For starts, I like to tinker, Mr. Stevens, I have no doubt that you are correct about throwing the gauge away but that aint me. Mr. Danny your idea is pretty much what will happen tomorrow, 3 groups of 10 sorted for concentricity with the 11th being the worst of the lot. Also will look at alpha munitions. Mr. Joe thanks for the mandrel size amazon info, good job on the movie wish I could do such.

New brass process, please critic

1 check brass size with case gauge

2 check concentricity, index mark and record runout on the brass

3 anneal if needed

3.5 I forgot about the chamfering

4 bushing neck, index mark aligned

5 mandrel neck, again, index mark

6 outside trim

7 polish with steel wool to remove tooling marks

Man, the ones that are crooked sure do wobble, make your hand itch.

8 wash, compressed air blow out, dry

Just wondering why some of my 3 times fired brass still has the same # it started with or close?

You know this is the 8th barrel this gun has had on it, all 22-250s, but the plague killed all dogs in my favorite part of Wyoming so I figured Id try something else. 1 of those barrels was so easy to reload for, 3 were rejects and 4 were about like what I have now. 2000 rounds and little or no riffling first 1/3 of barrel.

 

[Enosiophobia]

Please elaborate on the POS concentricity gauge?

 

[Robert Robinson]

Mr. Joe

The trimmer you have looks to be of fixed bearing on one side and mandrel on the other. How could that work on other than perfectly straight brass. That’s why I opted for the hand held Sinclair.

 

[nso123]

Good advice from Dusty. That brass will change the first couple of times you fire it in your chamber. That is when you can really start digging into how good the brass is. Will you elaborate on why you would anneal new brass? That is done at the factory.

 

[Robert Robinson]

Mr Carlos
The intent of this gauge was to straighten crooked bullets, didn’t take me but a couple of times to realize that if you push a bullet straight then you are liable to have 0 neck tension. I use it as a reference tool only. That’s assuming that the rim is a critical part of the equation. Im absolutely sure the neck is.
Also assuming what POS means

 

[Robert Robinson]

Mr.123
nosler and starline not annealed when new, least not the ones I purchased. or they didnt appear that way. I got into it pdog shooting, wanted to get the max # of reloads

 

[nso123]

They are annealed at the factory. They just polish the brass afterwards and you can't see the annealing mark anymore.

 

[JFrank]

I’m typically in the minority however the only thing I do to virgin brass is chamfer and Mandrel the neck ID and fire form, I may run my next box of brass through the F/L prior to the other steps.
Can’t hurt”

 

[Bc'z]

I’m typically in the minority however the only thing I do to virgin brass is chamfer and Mandrel the neck ID and fire form, I may run my next box of brass through the F/L prior to the other steps.
Can’t hurt”

Not with your wilson

 

[Robert Robinson]

results from todays experiment; 3, 7 shot groups fired of selected straightest brass with the 8th shot being of the very worst (2@.oo7 and 1@.010). The 3 groups were still not worth measuring (1.5ish @100yds) and the 8th shoot of each fell right in there with the rest. Go figure. Still wont stop me from trying to make the straightest bullet possible but maybe shifting focus just a little. This barrel just doesn’t seem to like the 140 RDF so maybe I’ll switch over to hornady and maybe from the thread next to mine check with whidden supply, heck I could ride down there one day.

 

[dstoenner]

This barrel just doesn’t seem to like the 140 RDF so maybe I’ll switch over to hornady

There are other posts on this forum that say RDF stands for Random Damn Flyer. I have been breaking in a 6BR barrel and was using a bunch of left over bullets from various boxes. Last range trip was some 105 RDF and 105 Berger Hybrid. Same cases, same powder load, same primers. The RDF's shot .8 to 1.1 inch groups while the Berger's shot .4 to .8 groups. Last year I had shot some 140 RDFs at a thousand and had 2 8's that day, 1 at 12 and 1 at 6. I am through with them.

As to your original post about concentricity, I have found that honed Forster FL sizers ( a service they will do for a nominal charge) create the highest level of concentric cases I have ever been able to develop. Out of a group of 95 Lapua 6x47L cases, 80 were at .001 or less and the remaining 15 were no more than .002.

David

 

[PatMiles]

There are other posts on this forum that say RDF stands for Random Damn Flyer.David

There are other posts that are not that kind.

 

[Robert Robinson]

RDF may be the culprit, hard to say. I just got used to nosler bullets for my pdog shooting. Those double and triple and more quigleys were great. Turns out the 50gr leftovers are devastating for the Hogs that have recently showed up in my neck of the woods. That bullet also took the biggest whitetail I have ever killed. That subject belongs in a different forum, like ethics?

 

[grovey]

Seems like a post concerning runout is more times than not made by someone using a bushing die.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Seems like a post concerning runout is more times than not made by someone using a bushing die.

This has got to be a first though- runout on brass right out of the box. I guess ive never heard of anybody checking it before processing it.

 

[Robert Robinson]

Probably first for index marking to, right out of the box. It’s a hobby.

 

[butchlambert]

Have you measured a fired piece of brass before sizing or other work?