5r

[rwk]

What is 5r in a barrel

 

[SBLH10]

Hope this help's to understand 5R.

 

[jds holler]

Hope this help's to understand 5R.

Thanks for this thread, and thanks for that answer. jd

 

[Comrade Terry]

From Remington:

"Thank you for contacting Remington! The 5R Mill spec information is not listed on the web sites for Military or Law enforcement. This is because this firearm is not a standard cataloged offering. It is a limited run, or special run, we produce for Acusport Corp. in OH. Acusport is one of our major wholesalers. Until recently all of the 5R's have been short action 308's. We have also begun offering the 5R in a 223 short action and a 300 Win Mag long action.
The 5R utilizes the HS Precision stock; this is a kevlar reinforced fiberglass stock with a full length aluminum bedding block. The barrel and action are made of a satin finished stainless steel. The heart and soul of the 5R is the barrel itself. This barrel is made on the exact same machinery as our military contract M24's. The only difference between this barrel and a M24 barrel is that the M24 has a larger outside Diameter than the 5R and the M24 has a step crown versus the 5R’s 11 degree target crown.

The name is derived from the rifling design. This uses a 5 land/5 groove radiused rifling design. The shoulders of these lands being radiused to 110 degrees results in a much smoother etching of the bullet jacket leading to more stability in flight. They also produce less fouling and less drag in the bore often resulting is slightly higher velocities with lower pressures."

 

[JRS]

www.obermeyerbarrels.com/faq.html

 

[Rustystud]

5 R came from the WWI Russians. It was later used by the Germans during WWII. Boots Obermyer has been credited as bringing 5R to the United States. Mike Rock brought it to Rock Creek.

 

[Eraser]

Is it an improvement or marketing?

 

[swd]

Is it an improvement or marketing?

A bit of both depending on the circumstances. For really fast twist barrels it can sometimes help keep bullets from blowing up by reducing stress on the jacket. Other than that pick your poison as far as rifling goes.

 

[1shot]

I have found 5R barrels easier to clean and they are generally slightly faster than their 4 groove counterpart. With that said, no two barrels are ever the same regardless of land/groove configuration all else being equal.
I see these benefits in 6.5mm barrels and larger, but no advantage in the 6mm. I suppose if I ever ran a twist faster than a 1-7.5 in the 6mm I would give some thought to a 5 groove.
Just my .02c

Lloyd

 

[Bart B.]

When Sierra introduced its 168 grain HPMK 7mm match bullets in 1970, its thinner jacket (compared to hunting bullets) was engraved enough by lands that hotter loads spun with 9 inch twists oft times flew apart. Conventional rifling weakened jackets too much. Boots Obermeyer started his 5R rifling shape for 7mm match barrels which solved this problem.

 

[msinc]

Is it an improvement or marketing?

Finally.....somebody asked the question!! Personally, based on my experience with it, I have to conclude it is marketing, albeit clever. I have been unable to see any evidence where it is any more accurate, shoots better or fouls less/cleans easier. Wish it did all of the above, but no. I have even tested it in handguns shooting cast lead bullets and still...no.
A little background on why the Russians used it might be in order...it is my understanding that they shoot mild steel jacketed bullets {I guess copper costs too much or is "rare" there} and initially found that this caused the drive side of the rifling to wear prematurely, especially when firing full auto. So, the cure was to make it that way, that is with a "ramp" or radius on the drive side and hard chrome the bore.
Along comes some clever folks that "Americanized" it and here we are...everyone thinks it's the final word in the matter of rifling.
When enough people thought they had to have it, which was some years ago, many barrel makers started to offer it. Krieger held out. They had a pretty good write up on their website for quite a while in which they discussed testing and being unable to find a single advantage or even difference. So, they didn't offer it. Sales must have finally suffered enough to cause even Krieger to jump on the wagon and start, because now they do.
I say it is marketing because that is where it really works, shooting wise, not so much so. If I were going to build a custom rifle just to sell it would have a 5R barrel for sure. It sells.

Edit: I have had a few 5R barrels that shot great, but no better than the others with conventional rifling. I will say this, the two absolute worst fouling barrels I have ever owned are both 5R's and from two different manufacturers. Both are cut rifling and both have been shot long past the so-called break in period.

 

[dkhunt14]

I have had some Broughton 5C that cleaned in as little as two to three wet patches. I never had a cut barrel do that. This is not based on one or two barrels, but a bunch of both. Not sure if it was because of button rifling or 5C. Those barrels were extremely accurate also. Matt

 

[LA50SHOOTER]

I Agree with what Matt is saying - The 5C Broughton breaks in fast, cleans easy & shoots well. (That's at 100 right after break-in)

 

[butchlambert]

A good barrel is a good barrel. Seems a couple barrel makers make them because their customers asked for it, but they do not claim any advantage.

 

[JBT47]

I’ve used around 20 Bartlein and Krieger 5R’s and several Broughton 5C’s. They have all shot well. But I don’t believe it had anything to do with them being 5R...they shot well because those guys make good barrels and they were chambered correctly.

 

[jamesdmock]

Finally.....somebody asked the question!! Personally, based on my experience with it, I have to conclude it is marketing, albeit clever. I have been unable to see any evidence where it is any more accurate, shoots better or fouls less/cleans easier. Wish it did all of the above, but no. I have even tested it in handguns shooting cast lead bullets and still...no.
A little background on why the Russians used it might be in order...it is my understanding that they shoot mild steel jacketed bullets {I guess copper costs too much or is "rare" there} and initially found that this caused the drive side of the rifling to wear prematurely, especially when firing full auto. So, the cure was to make it that way, that is with a "ramp" or radius on the drive side and hard chrome the bore.
Along comes some clever folks that "Americanized" it and here we are...everyone thinks it's the final word in the matter of rifling.
When enough people thought they had to have it, which was some years ago, many barrel makers started to offer it. Krieger held out. They had a pretty good write up on their website for quite a while in which they discussed testing and being unable to find a single advantage or even difference. So, they didn't offer it. Sales must have finally suffered enough to cause even Krieger to jump on the wagon and start, because now they do.
I say it is marketing because that is where it really works, shooting wise, not so much so. If I were going to build a custom rifle just to sell it would have a 5R barrel for sure. It sells.

Edit: I have had a few 5R barrels that shot great, but no better than the others with conventional rifling. I will say this, the two absolute worst fouling barrels I have ever owned are both 5R's and from two different manufacturers. Both are cut rifling and both have been shot long past the so-called break in period.

John Krieger told me that he was reluctant to offer a 5R type barrel out of respect for Boots. Boots helped Krieger get into barrel making and he did not want to "steal" the idea of a 5R barrel from him. Later, Boots told him to offer it if that is what his customers wanted and Krieger did so. Good shooting...James

 

[rwk]

Thanks u all.

 

[Barlow]

I have 3 Rock Creek 5R barrels. I wish all my rifles had them. Barlow

 

[XTR]

I don't believe anyone who doesn't shoot BR can tell the difference, and I don't believe there are more than a handful of guys who shoot BR who have shot enough barrels to be able to tell if it is just barrel variation or if it's the rifling, and of those I'd be surprised if any actually have collected the data to make a statistically valid determination...

I have read that some smiths have had issues with getting some irregularities/lobes in the chambers when chambering 5Rs, though others suppose that it was probably from going to fast.

Personally I have both and shoot both, and I can't tell the difference. I'll take which ever I can get first.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

I don't believe anyone who doesn't shoot BR can tell the difference, and I don't believe there are more than a handful of guys who shoot BR who have shot enough barrels to be able to tell if it is just barrel variation or if it's the rifling, and of those I'd be surprised if any actually have collected the data to make a statistically valid determination...

I have read that some smiths have had issues with getting some irregularities/lobes in the chambers when chambering 5Rs, though others suppose that it was probably from going to fast.

Personally I have both and shoot both, and I can't tell the difference. I'll take which ever I can get first.

You wont see em in short range br much so yes the data isnt there. Most br shooters know when to give up on one and aint much into data collecting