50 foot prone? Even f-class?

[kzin]

My club is thinking about a 50 foot smallbore match to make use of our indoor facility in the winter.

The original proposal is prone, I think including f-class.

Is 50 ft with premium rifles and equipment even fun? From my limited practice at even 75 feet it seems like a 30 shot match may be 25 judgement calls on whether you hit the miniscule 10 or x.

I'm thinking of pushing for sporter rifle specs and/or 3P.

 

[wkdickinson]

Our club has been shooting 22 rimfire on our indoor range in the winter, long before I joined 30 years ago. We shoot on Tuesday nights, just a bunch of High-Power (and F-class now) shooters trying to stay in practice and get out for a beer or two after at the club bar. We used to be a bit more formal and would shoot one target (A-17) each in 4-positions. But, of late it is more whatever you want to do. A number of shooters use there AR's with a 22lr conversion, slow & rapid fire, while others just shoot prone with a sling, using various levels of target rifles.

The A-17 target is a challenge, even at 50 ft. There are few cleans shot in any position. If the A-17 isn't challenging enough, you could always go to the A-36 target.

 

[Outrider27]

NRA Intercollegiate Division (that's what it was called decades ago, don't know what it's called now) was shot at 50 feet on indoor ranges, in 3 positions, and I can assure you, the prone target had a very small 10 ring and a dot for an X ring, and I don't ever remember, in 3 years scoring for the rifle team, scoring a perfect 100 - 10 x target. If you select a target that requires a high level of precision, like that one, 50 feet prone is quite a challenge. AS for scoring, with 22RF and precision targets, you need one of these and you have to know how to use it to call the close ones; https://www.theshootersbox.com/EZ-Scorer-Scoring-Plugs--22--32--45_p_13941.html

 

[1813benny]

50' prone with either sling or F-SBR can certainly be a challenge if the right target is selected.

Order of target difficulty is as follows:
-A17
-A36
-USA50

I would skip the A17 as it is relatively easy and a 100-10x is not uncommon even w/ iron sights.

The A36 is a step up in difficulty but may not be enough of a challenge for the F-SBR shooters. At the annual "Opperman" match held just outside Allentown, PA - there have been multiple 800 aggregates fired with both scope and iron sights by sling shooters on the A36. That is why I would recommend using the USA50 target.

The USA50 target correctly duplicates the 50m target for 50'. To properly score, you need both an inward and outward scoring plug. Even with optics, the USA50 target is a challenge - and is the current target used for USA Shooting international type 3-p indoor matches (i.e. JORCs, etc.) and has effectively replaced the A36.

Another challenging, yet "unofficial" target is called the "flyspeck" that is used at my home club in eastern PA. There are 50 dots on the target, each with only one concentric ring for aiming. The shot needs to hit the inner dot but not touch the inner side of the outer ring to be scored as a "10". Its either a 10 or a 0 - nothing in between. Someone crunched the numbers years ago and said you had to be able to hold a 5/8" group at 100 yards to score a possible. To date, I believe the high score out of 100 shots is 82. A "flyspeck" match is held once a month from I believe November through April and the "league" winner is from the aggregate.

Regards,
ken

 

[Mark Self]

Ken, where can someone get targets? Flyspeck

 

[Mikey_P]

50' prone with either sling or F-SBR can certainly be a challenge if the right target is selected.

Another challenging, yet "unofficial" target is called the "flyspeck" that is used at my home club in eastern PA. There are 50 dots on the target, each with only one concentric ring for aiming. The shot needs to hit the inner dot but not touch the inner side of the outer ring to be scored as a "10". Its either a 10 or a 0 - nothing in between. Someone crunched the numbers years ago and said you had to be able to hold a 5/8" group at 100 yards to score a possible. To date, I believe the high score out of 100 shots is 82. A "flyspeck" match is held once a month from I believe November through April and the "league" winner is from the aggregate.

Regards,
ken

Here's a copy of the flyspeck target from the match that Ken mentions. I find it to be challenging (maybe "maddening" is more appropriate!). 100 shots for record (you shoot two targets side-by-side) in 100 minutes will test your endurance. I've attached a copy below, for reference. If you can manage a score somewhere in the 50's, you're doing pretty good. To shoot in the 70's, which I've seen at least two other shooters do, is otherworldly. And, I believe that Ken is correct with an 82/100 being best ever score for our club's match series.

Mike

 

[1Merlin]

Sorry if I missed it but how big are the circles?

 

[Mikey_P]

Sorry if I missed it but how big are the circles?

Looks like the I.D. of the circle is approximately 0.35". I've also attached a pic of a scored target. Those circles with a checkmark above them are "hits". Those without are misses. A very unforgiving target which will make you a better shooter, for sure!

Mike

 

[kzin]

ok, now I want something like the flyspeck target only automatically scored as hit or miss.

sort of a cross between this and a 50 ft sized biathlon target

 

[Mikey_P]

ok, now I want something like the flyspeck target only automatically scored as hit or miss.
sort of a cross between this and a 50 ft sized biathlon target

Now that would be cool!

 

[bberg7794]

I think you should go for the 50 foot indoor match. They are a lot of fun and the USA50 target is plenty challenging at 50 feet indoors. I have shot in the same December prone match for a number of years now and can attest to how few 100's are shot on this target. If you are looking for a challenge, this is a good one.

In 2016 there were 26 shooters and each competitor shot 6 targets (60 shots) for 156 total targets shot. There were 2 ea. 100's and 7 ea. 99's shot that year.

I have lost most of the data for the 2017 match, other than there were 35 shooters.

In 2018 there were 34 shooters for 204 total targets shot, with 1 ea. 100 and 5 ea. 99's shot.

In 2019 there were 25 shooters for 150 total targets shot, with 0 ea. 100's and 7 ea. 99's shot.

 

[Twdmar]

Have you considered trying the 10m air rifle target at 50 feet?

 

[kzin]

Have you considered trying the 10m air rifle target at 50 feet?

Interesting idea.
A quick look at the specs indicates it's slightly bigger than the usa50.
I think we'll go a17 or usa50 or both.

 

[dc.fireman]

My club is thinking about a 50 foot smallbore match to make use of our indoor facility in the winter.

The original proposal is prone, I think including f-class.

Is 50 ft with premium rifles and equipment even fun? From my limited practice at even 75 feet it seems like a 30 shot match may be 25 judgement calls on whether you hit the miniscule 10 or x.

I'm thinking of pushing for sporter rifle specs and/or 3P.

Use air rifles, and 10M air rifle targets.

 

[Outrider27]

Looked up the USA50 and was able to enlarge one image I found for it. Very much in the spirit of the targets that I described above in my discussion of scoring for the rifle team (I was on the small bore pistol team and each team supplied scorers for the other for major matches). Should be a great target for the 50 foot indoor matches discussed by the OP.

 

[Twdmar]

For the f class guys, the a17 will probably be too easy and with a sling at 50 feet i rarely drop more than a point with my Tikka to.
I suggested the 10m air rifle target because the only way to get 10 points is to obliterate the 10 point dot. The variation in the scores might make things more interesting.

 

[kzin]

thanks for the responses

we are probably going forward with a 50' prone match
usa50 for 'precision' classes and a17 for 'sporter' classes