5 STARS to Leupold Service

[snert]

Deeeeep breath.....exhale....deep breath...

 

[hogpatrol]

 

[LHSmith]

One of the guys on this thread cited "lapping rings". That is preposterous. Number one, it violates any warranty you might have and Number two, is not likely necessary with quality manufactured rings. You do it anyway though, right? Sure...


It may be an involved process to make a gloss finish look good, but in these days of wonder finishes, adapting a finish that looks good AND is tough would be very easy to accomplish. Seems like Zeiss mastered this over 30yrs ago, Burris also.

Do a search on the Daily Bulletin on lapping scopes. It's not necessarily the quality of the rings but a matter of the quality of machining on the rifle: how precise are the scope base mounting holes located? Every factory rifle I have done has shown how uneven the scope tube rests on the bottom rings....it is a real eye opener....you can actually see how easy it is to bend the scope tube (causing internal problems) and never know it. Also easy to see is how the rings can leave marks on the scope because they may only have 20% contact -usually with only one edge. I don't know what ring manufacturer has a warranty, but from the results I have seen from lapping, I would gladly forego any warranty.
I've seen Zeiss and Burris and every scope maker between that MADE (past tense) Gloss finish have faint ring marks from mounting.

 

[hogan]

One of the guys on this thread cited "lapping rings". That is preposterous. Number one, it violates any warranty you might have and Number two, is not likely necessary with quality manufactured rings. You do it anyway though, right? Sure...


It may be an involved process to make a gloss finish look good, but in these days of wonder finishes, adapting a finish that looks good AND is tough would be very easy to accomplish. Seems like Zeiss mastered this over 30yrs ago, Burris also.

Do a search on the Daily Bulletin on lapping scopes. It's not necessarily the quality of the rings but a matter of the quality of machining on the rifle: how precise are the scope base mounting holes located? Every factory rifle I have done has shown how uneven the scope tube rests on the bottom rings....it is a real eye opener....you can actually see how easy it is to bend the scope tube (causing internal problems) and never know it. Also easy to see is how the rings can leave marks on the scope because they may only have 20% contact -usually with only one edge. I don't know what ring manufacturer has a warranty, but from the results I have seen from lapping, I would gladly forego any warranty.
I've seen Zeiss and Burris and every scope maker between that MADE (past tense) Gloss finish have faint ring marks from mounting.

I dunno... Lapping scope rings is not a critical function to achieve accuracy or precision. For sure, you won't bend the scope tube if rings are not lapped. Plenty of high end scope mfrs caution not to use more than 15-18 inch pounds of torque on ring cap fasteners. Seems pretty cheesy to me, and just another way to get out of warranty claims. Reminded me of such experience with IOR-Valdada. Scopes are all about warranty and service because their complexity makes failure very likely with regular use.

I found a great deal of difference in quality in early 2000 by changing to Badger Ord bases and 30mm rings. Near Manufacturing is another high quality maker, also TPS who make the best value in tactical scope rings I have used. NONE of these needed or would benefit from lapping. I did own a Sinclair Lapping tool in the 90s and used it on a couple ring sets. This was before many of the best quality ring sets were being manufactured, or were available. If I was shimming a standard base by .025" or more, could sure see how that amount of cant might affect pressures on maintube and could benefit from lapping to offset the angle.

I have found and commented on above, that the most precision worthy mount system is Picatinny design, especially when machined integral to receiver. NOT my experience that contemporary quality rifles are tapped for scope mounts with the holes out of alignment. I tested Leupold QR 2pc and 1pc bases on 2 SA rifles and 4 or 5 LA rifles of mostly USRAC Win 70 flavor, but including 2 post 64 Winchesters from late 60s early 70s. If any of these rifles had been tapped off bore centerline, my test would have showed it.

Have owned about 6 Burris over the years that were gloss finished. The black finish wears way superior to Leupold's. Since introduction of Leupold matte finish scopes, any scope I buy from them to use in the field is matte.

I will say that most commonly used scope base sets are not mated very well to receiver. Perhaps you could lap those in, but I would be more inclined to use JB Weld or epoxy to hold the base in 100% contact with the receiver bridge than to rely on three or four 6x46 threaded screws.

The most critical tool for scope diagnostics and precise mounting is a Boresighter/Collimator like the Bushnell 74-3333. Pretty good article in Precision Shooting's Benchrest Primer about how to mount scope bases and scope. Gunsmith from Austin writing to Dave Brennan about the scope work he did, but didn't charge him for on a new rifle... Cautioning him not to fiddle with the mount setup...


Rifles and scopes; plus ammunition are all very complex systems with many, many variables. It is amazing that so great a degree of accuracy and precision is now commonly achieved. It is human nature to take for granted what few years past was exceptional.


One real aspect of Wonderful Warranty Fulfillment is how much of each unit's cost is allocated to Warranty Claims Expected by the company accountants??? Probably 30% of the mfr cost of any quality scope with lifetime warranty is going towards warranty expenses.

Might say same about RCBS products and their very generous warranty; we are paying for it up front, whether you ever have a claim or not.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

I dunno... Lapping scope rings is not a critical function to achieve accuracy or precision. For sure, you won't bend the scope tube if rings are not lapped...

That statement is completely inaccurate and holds zero amount of truth. I had a Sa(l)vage 116 action one time that was twisted in the rear. When a scope was mounted with standard factory rings the adjustments were so inconsistent it was crazy. you could adjust it and it wouldn't move, then watch the reticle and smack the scope and it would move. Why was this? The scope body was being torqued and bent. What was the fix you ask? lapping the rings...

There are so many rifles out there stressing scope bodies with un-lapped rings that many folks don't even know it because many times the problem will not present itself until you get to the upper or lower limits of the elevation or windage adjustment. If you have a good scope with a reputable name and it's not reaching the claimed amount of adjustment, there's a good chance the scope body is being torqued to the point of binding the internal adjustment components. Not always, but it's a definite possibility.

I "over-lap" my rings and then bed them with JB Weld. A method learned from a renowned long range BR shooter and member of this forum, zfastmalibu. Trust me, it makes a difference and eliminates any possible alignment or adjustment issues that may be caused by rings, bases, improperly machined actions, or misaligned scope mounting holes.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Of course i have no problem with ring marks on a competition scope as they get swapped around a lot but the gloss finish anodized tubes seem way more scratch resistant to me than matte. Everytime i pull a matte leupold its shiny where the rings were. On a fine hunting scope where i care what it looks like those are mounted for the life of that rifle. I have many many rifles with gloss and matte bodies on rifles some have been there 30yrs. Most are leupolds. None are mounted in plastic rings most are in leupold rings. And in my 30yrs of mounting hundreds of scopes a year ive never snapped a ring onto a scope. BUT i have unsnapped some when the owner tightened em up til they touched but never from a properly installed ring. But hey i go thru a truckload of mcmillans each year too- enuf to get a christmas card signed by the shop guys- and i like em so my opinion doesnt really matter!