45 win mag hunting load?

[spencerhenry]

it is time to develop a hunting load in 45 win mag for a 6.5" barrel auto loader.

anyone got a good starting point?

the quarry will be cow elk and black bears.

 

[MrMajestic]

I'd say you want to be as close as you can get and think about double tapping. :

 

[spencerhenry]

i am not concerned about having enough power to put down an elk or a bear. data shows 250gr bullets up to 1400 fps.

i was not asking for suitability of the round, but rather if someone had a load that they liked.

 

[MrMajestic]

Okay, on a serious note, start with a checked hard cast wide flat nose(hopefully it will feed) as heavy as it will chamber and feed then drive it as hard as you can with keeping the gun in one piece. Get as close as possible and set a maximum distance, say 50 yards, then put as many accurate rounds in the boiler room that you can prior to it distancing itself out of the maximum range that you set earlier. Central Nervous System hits count also. A 250 at 1400 ain't squat so you must put two holes in them, one in and one out, to insure your County specific tag still applies ;D FYI-(1400X1400)250/450240=1088 ft. lbs. Muzzle Energy

 

[spencerhenry]

a 250gr at 1400 isn't squat?

maybe you could go back in time and tell that to the animals that i have killed with less! fat slow bullets kill very effectively.

i once called sierra about bullet performance out of my 7mmBR xp-100. the sierra guy told me that the 7mmbr was too small for elk! i killed 5 elk with that round with a 130gr specialty pistol bullet. one of those was at 407 yards. 2 dropped in their tracks, and none went more than 100 yards. NEVER lost one!

i have no qualms about a 45 caliber bullet at 1400 fps killing an elk.

once again, i was not asking for opinions on the suitability of the round, nor how to hunt.

 

[watercam]

Shot placement being paramount! After watching more than one Kiwi kill large Red Stags with single shots of Winchester Power Point 100 g. .243s at ranges in excess of 350 yards I became a firm believer.
I like H110 when one can fill the case, about 26 gr. for a 250-260 grain bullet. What bullet are you thinking of? I wonder if the Barnes bullet for the .45 acp would work. A bit lighter than you had in mind but they hold together like nobodies business and the wound channel is epic. That plus it would feed. Hodgdon web site shows 18 gr. HS-6 for a 185 gr. for 1470 fps. I am betting 800-X could beat that a bit. Perhaps 2400 or 4227.
Good luck with your hunt, let us know what you end up with.

 

[MrMajestic]

Wrong site for you Newbie, try Cast Boolits! Just because you did, can or want to doesn't me you should, you should only have to!

 

[watercam]

He does not speak for all of us...
MrMajestic I see you hail from the East coast which is fine. I have no idea how much large, heavy game you hunt there and you have every right to your opinion but:
Keith did it with hot .44 Specials, buffalo hunters did it at long range with heavy, slow lead slugs, bear hunters in Alaska did it with the .35 Remington early in the 20th century, etc., etc.. Rifle and Handloader contributor Brian Pearce is still doing it as are a small army of hunters in the West. People have been killing large heavy game long before the Super Mag/wanna-be-Carlos Hathcock long range hunting crowd were a glint in a marketers eye.

 

[dedogs]

MTM, +11111111

 

[MrMajestic]

MTM and sh,
I have hunted whitetails with .41 and .44 Magnums using heavy hard cast bullets at magnum velocities. I have killed Whitetail with them and the .223 Remington through 7mm Remington Magnum using 80 to 162 gr. jacketed bullets. Does the handgun kill? Yes. Do the high velocity jacketed bullets kill? Yes, but better with reduced tracking required and less chance of losing a wounded animal. The OP received an answer from the "Experts" and didn't agree so he went out and proved them wrong, sounded like a mission to me! My opinion yes, ain't America great! I answered his question on how, if he must use a firearm that is not recommended by many for the task at hand, to get results. Let's face it, his post was intended to stir the pot (Troll?) and he did. I killed 146 Groundhogs last season and lost some due to lack of bullet performance and/or a poorly placed shot. I felt bad every time one got away wounded due to my respect for the game. If this guy can afford a .45 Winchester Magnum in an autoloader he can afford a firearm that performs better on Elk/Bear. Better yet take that thing to Alaska and get a Grizzly that will really show us! Over and out MM.

 

[watercam]

Definitely not worth any bad blood or karma. Best of luck on your future hunts.

 

[LHSmith]

I'm with MrMajestic on this one.......besides what sorry _ss state allows hunting big game with an automatic pistol? I know farmers who butcher and use a .22 rimfire with 100% success on hogs and steer, and that doesn't make it a viable hunting round for medium to large game.
The OP lost credibility when he based his opinion on bullet performance on 5 game animals while Sierra continually tests their bullets in ballistic gel medium and advised the OP his bullet choice was a poor one.

 

[watercam]

I hear you. I am a died in the wool rifle hunter for all the reasons MrMajestic mentioned HOWEVER the gentleman asked for load info, not hunting lessons. I am not going to try and tell anyone how to approach his or her endeavors, much less hunting. .44 magnum handguns have taken game as large as elephants successfully and have been taking large elk and moose type game for decades long before the .454, .480, all the Linbaughs, etc..
I have no idea how you guys feel about archery hunting but I equate the two as far as the need for stalking and good shot placement. All I am saying is hunters have options for the legal take of game.
Let everyone decide for themselves how to face the challenge without berating them publicly and giving the anti-hunting groups fodder for their cannons.

 

[people]

My relative has a grizzly 45 win mag. He said he shoots a partition bullet, swift I think he said. I do not remember how fast it was but the load seemed pretty stout to me.

 

[spencerhenry]

I hear you. I am a died in the wool rifle hunter for all the reasons MrMajestic mentioned HOWEVER the gentleman asked for load info, not hunting lessons. I am not going to try and tell anyone how to approach his or her endeavors, much less hunting. .44 magnum handguns have taken game as large as elephants successfully and have been taking large elk and moose type game for decades long before the .454, .480, all the Linbaughs, etc..
I have no idea how you guys feel about archery hunting but I equate the two as far as the need for stalking and good shot placement. All I am saying is hunters have options for the legal take of game.
Let everyone decide for themselves how to face the challenge without berating them publicly and giving the anti-hunting groups fodder for their cannons.

exactly!

i did not ask for opinions on hunting with the 45 win mag, i asked for load information. most importantly i was hoping to get info on what bullets perform at 45 win mag velocities.

sierra techs did not tell me their bullet was not made for game, they suggested that the bullet was too light for elk. but, sierra does not make a heavier bullet intended for handguns. i shot those 5 elk with the xp-100 starting in the mid 90's but have not hunted with it since '99.
hunting cow elk with a rifle has no challenge to it whatsoever. that is why i use a handgun, or a bow.

as far as being a "newb", just an attempt to diminish me, not even close. the fact is, i have been handloading since 1986. loading for wildcats with no brass readily available since 1990, handgun hunting since 1990. archery hunting since 1983.
i have taken 18 bull elk with a bow, 4 of which are record book. i have taken 4 mule deer bucks with a bow one of which is record book. i have taken more mule deer bucks with a rifle (and handgun) than i can recall, one of which is record book. i have taken bighorn sheep, mountain goat, moose, pronghorn, and caribou with a rifle not to mention a few hundred coyotes (15 since october 1). i have a 450 yard shooting range with the bench at 10 yards from the house.

i do not need a sermon on ethical hunting. nor do i need someone suggest to me how far i can shoot. 50 yards with a handgun is a long shot i believe. but, i do not have a problem getting within 30 yards of an elk. i once shot a pronghorn with my 50bmg at 1282 yards. i did it, but realized at the time that it was not ethical and have never wanted to do it again.

i did not realize that to be accepted on "accurate shooter" that i must shoot a small diameter super fast bullet. i apologize for thinking that accurate shooting can also be larger diameter bigger bullets at slower speeds. i guess some of you would frown upon my 1876 winchester 45-75 with barrel sights shooting 1.5 minutes at 100 yards with cast bullets at roughly 1350 fps.
while i enjoy "accurate shooter" type rifles like 22-250AI, i also enjoy stuff like 405 winchester, 348 winchester, and 375 winchester. i even once killed an elk with my 1886 winchester in 45-70 with a cast bullet at well under 2000fps, the range? 40 yards. i shot it once and as it took off, shot it again. both killing shots.

for those of you "back east" that have never hunted elk or game that size, i suggest you try killing them, as opposed to reading about killing them. elk are not nearly as difficult to put down as people like craig boddington would have you believe. i know many people that use a 243 to shoot elk, not because they can't afford a bigger rifle, but because that is the amount of recoil that the 100 pound women that should it can tolerate. i also know large body builder guys who cannot shoot for crap because they use a 338 win mag that they are afraid of.

i have an LAR Grizzly in 45 win mag, 6.5" barrel. it shoots damn near as good as my les baer 45. i find absolutely no challenge in shooting a cow elk beyond 50 yards, and so i want to use my grizzly. if someone thinks that make me a dick, fine. i do not care. you are probably the same ones that think it is ethical to shoot those little puny whitetails at 600 yards plus with your super whiz bang, mach 8, micro bullet, laser flat, self orgasmic custom job.

 

[spencerhenry]

not that there is anything wrong with custom rifles!

 

[LHSmith]

Since you apparently have marksman skills far beyond the rest of us mortals, the Sierra manual -5th edition lists loads for the .45 Win Mag. ....a round whose success took off like a lead balloon. Since you abhor "gussy" shots and welcome a challenge, I expect you'll load the LAR one round at a time.....just to keep the hunt from being so boring.

 

[people]

It is called practice. Just because you do not have the skills does not mean others do not have said skills.

 

[watercam]

Self orgasmic - good one. I'll have to use that some other time...
It's good to have large and varied firearms interests! Keeps one from becoming bored. Come to think of it, I have not taken my Hawkin afield in years!