424 OKH

[bigfish3]

In the early 50's while living in Alaska, my father had a rifle made for him by Charlie O'Neil, Elmer Keith and Don Hopkins. The rifle is stamped as 424 OKH. He also had a set of Huntington (RCBS) Dies. I can remember Elmer and his wife Lorraine when we visited them in Salmon, ID and when they came to see us when we lived in North Fork, ID. Elmer was really proud of his brand new 44 mag pistols he got back in 1956. He brought them out so he and my father could fire a few rounds.
My father passed away in 1988 and now I'm looking to reload rounds for this 424 OKH. I have absolutely no notes left to me for reloading this round. As a matter of fact, this is my first attempt at reloading any rifle cartridge. I know it's a heck of a way to start out, but there it is. I have scoured the internet, but no information is available that I have located on this round. I['m going to send these dies to RCBS to see if they can do any kind of workup on what bullets should be used on top of this expanded 375 H&H brass. If anyone has any ideas or knows of where any reload data might be for this round, I would be very appreciative.

 

[bozo699]

In the early 50's while living in Alaska, my father had a rifle made for him by Charlie O'Neil, Elmer Keith and Don Hopkins. The rifle is stamped as 424 OKH. He also had a set of Huntington (RCBS) Dies. I can remember Elmer and his wife Lorraine when we visited them in Salmon, ID and when they came to see us when we lived in North Fork, ID. Elmer was really proud of his brand new 44 mag pistols he got back in 1956. He brought them out so he and my father could fire a few rounds.
My father passed away in 1988 and now I'm looking to reload rounds for this 424 OKH. I have absolutely no notes left to me for reloading this round. As a matter of fact, this is my first attempt at reloading any rifle cartridge. I know it's a heck of a way to start out, but there it is. I have scoured the internet, but no information is available that I have located on this round. I['m going to send these dies to RCBS to see if they can do any kind of workup on what bullets should be used on top of this expanded 375 H&H brass. If anyone has any ideas or knows of where any reload data might be for this round, I would be very appreciative.

Bigfish3,
Welcome to the forum, these guy's might be able to give you some info, hope it helps some, I may have some more info stashed somewhere myself.
Wayne.

http://www.qual-cart.com/new.htm

 

[PREMOD70]

I'd take it to a gunsmith to slug the barrel, do a chamber cast and check for headspace. The chamber cast should give you the dimensions necessary for the brass; I'd be surprised if it is nothing more than a necked up .375 H&H. The slug will give you the bullet diameter and a call to Barnes Bullets may find you some bullets. My search of the old Ackley handbook does list the cartridge but a Google search may bring some light on the subject, good luck.

 

[bozo699]

I'd take it to a gunsmith to slug the barrel, do a chamber cast and check for headspace. The chamber cast should give you the dimensions necessary for the brass; I'd be surprised if it is nothing more than a necked up .375 H&H. The slug will give you the bullet diameter and a call the Barnes Bullets may find you some bullets. My search of the old Ackley handbook does list the cartridge but a Google search may bring some light on the subject, good luck.

The 424 OKH is a necked up .375 H&H with a 40* shoulder I believe, The chamber cast is still a great idea.
Wayne.

 

[mauritz45]

greetings and welcome
i did a quick search over at accurate reloading, a site geared more toward big bores.
more info to be had over there
http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/4711043/m/158109579?r=158109579#158109579
cam

 

[bigfish3]

Thanks to all that have replied to my original post. I have read suggested sites and gained some insight into these wildcat cartridges. It's apparent I am not in the same league with those out there who are much more experienced in these matters. Having said that, here is where we are today. I have sent the 2 dies that I had (1- sizing and decap & 1 seating) both marked 424 OKH to RCBS in Oroville, CA. I also included some basic 375 H&H fired brass, some 424 fired brass and another sample of something which resembled a straight shouldered cartridge that is possibly a resized base 375 with no shoulder. A fired 424 cartridge is shouldered. Hopefully, between all this, RCBS can come up with what this animal should look like!! More news at 6.

 

[rhbrink]

Have you determined what the bore and groove diameters are? If the bullets are hard to find or not available sounds like a perfect round for some cast bullet development.

 

[bheadboy]

P. O Ackley's books on cartradge loading has some date in them on the OKH, i can not get to my copies as they are in storage - maybe someone on this page has the two book set, look in the second one of the set, i think and loads are there for this and other of OKH -- it has been a long time since i had access to the books so i may be wrong, but i know i have read loading dat on them. A

Also, in Keiths book on Six Guns there is some discussion i think, American Rifleman also had articles back in the 60's

Good luck,

Bob

 

[Nodak7mm]

Holy Smokes Sir,

You have a piece of history that is incredible!! It was not only made/built by some "real riflemen", but it was your Dad's too. And your going to do those men right, by shooting it again... Gun like that was meant to hunt..

Sure would love to see a few pix of the fifle if you could post a few!!

Please by all means, keep us posted.

Rod in Fargo

 

[necchi]

When the .424 was first developed
the original thought was to use .416
Rigby bullets, but on finding that these
were unavailable, bullets for the .404
Jeffery were imported and were the first
ones used. Later, Fred Barnes produced
a 400-grain bullet on special order for
this .424 diameter barrel. The .424
O.K.H. cartridge closely approximates
the .416 Rigby in performance. The
400-grain bullet, when pushed along
by 75 grains of 4064, gives a muzzle
velocity of 2,358.

http://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/PDF/hl4partial.pdf

Google search for 424okh cartridge, there's alot more that needs sifting through.
Now 1966 4064 might be a little different than the current 4064

 

[bigfish3]

An excellent article!! Thank you so much for passing this along. So, 1949 is not that far removed from when we got the 424 OKH in Alaska. I think it was the summer of 1953. It seems as though by that time, most of the kinks had been worker out. The price at that time was about $850. That would be $6850 in todays money!! I think I saw that Sable bull on Elmer's trophy wall at his home in Salmon. I goggled till I couldn't goog;e anymore and found nothing really subsantial until you pointed to this article. Waiting on feedback from RCBS on the dies and brass I sent in...hoping to get some dimensional info that we can use.

 

[bigfish3]

I'm going to attempt to attach the fired cartridge measurements. These came from RCBS and were taken from the samples I sent in along with the die set.
I'm thinking we are going to use a .423 bullet in 400gr. Shortly, I hope to post a shot showing samples of the base brass, explanded and ready to load, a completed cartridge and an expended brass. Plus, some pix of the rifle itself.

 

[WANTASHOOT]

I have the 1971 publication of the PO Ackley book "Handbook for Shooters and Reloaders" Volume I &II

There is a mention of the 424 OKH but no reloading data. It does mention Oniell Kieth and Hopkins as the inventor. OKH had several wildcats ranging from .285, .333 and .424.

Good luck finding the load data you are looking for. I will do some looking and repost if I come up with anything.

 

[bigfish3]

I received my dies back from RCBS today. WOW! These dies were purchased in 1955. When I sent them in, they were black, dirty and looked their age. When they came back....They looked brand new. I kid you not, if you didn't know better, you would think they just got made. Even made a new expander ball and provided new cases with factory labels. Ya know, you just cannot say enought about the kid of service that RCBS provides their customers. 5 star all the way!!!
I'm going to attempt a post of some pix on the brass and some shots of the rifle. The cartidge pix from left to right: (1) expended 375 H&H Mag brass (2) 375 H&H Mag case after put thru sizer/expander (3) 424 cartidge ready to fire (4) 424 brass after firing number 3 (5) Fired 424 brass reloaded and ready again. The rifle is about 42in. with a barrel length of 22in. My scale batt is dead so no exact weight. I'll repost weight later.

 

[bigfish3]

424 Rifle pix

 

[bigfish3]

424 rifle pix

 

[bozo699]

I received my dies back from RCBS today. WOW! These dies were purchased in 1955. When I sent them in, they were black, dirty and looked their age. When they came back....They looked brand new. I kid you not, if you didn't know better, you would think they just got made. Even made a new expander ball and provided new cases with factory labels. Ya know, you just cannot say enought about the kid of service that RCBS provides their customers. 5 star all the way!!!
I'm going to attempt a post of some pix on the brass and some shots of the rifle. The cartidge pix from left to right: (1) expended 375 H&H Mag brass (2) 375 H&H Mag case after put thru sizer/expander (3) 424 cartidge ready to fire (4) 424 brass after firing number 3 (5) Fired 424 brass reloaded and ready again. The rifle is about 42in. with a barrel length of 22in. My scale batt is dead so no exact weight. I'll repost weight later.

Big fish,
That is a neat deal, did you email them a nice testimonial just like what you said here? I am sure they would appreciate it. I am glad it's all working out for you, I hope we hear more from you about it as you get it going, it's just a real neat piece of history and you a re real lucky to have been a part of it and to still have the rifle after all these years, I am certain your father would be very proud of you for reviving the beast
Wayne.

 

[wboggs]

Bigfish
I just became aware of your post on the .424OKH and can give you some interesting background. Most of this information is from Bob Hagel who I used to correspond with in the 70's. He said the cartridge was developed for Don Hopkins who wanted to use it in Africa. Orginally, they intended to use .416 bullets but they were almost mpossible to obtain. Howver, bullets for the .404 Jeffery were available so the used this diameter. They made cartridges based on the full length .375 and also a shortened version. Both had long necks and were well designed. Most were loaded with 400 gr. 0.423 softnose and solids with the 0.049" jackets by Fred Barnes of Grand Junction, CO. Bob Hagel did extensive reloading research in those days. The short version did well with IMR 4320.

 

[wboggs]

continued
Velocities were around 2400fps. You have the long version and it is very similar to the .416 Remington. I have found IMR 4320 and R15 give very consistent pressures and superb accuracy. You may be able to locate some old Barnes, RWS, or Colorado Custom Bullets but I would strongly consider the Barnes 0.422" in 400gr which is designed for the .404 Jeffery. Start with some low .416 Rem loads and work up slowly. You will be able to easily reach 2400-2450 fps.
You are very lucky to have that rifle with it's heritage. Treat it with respect and it will not let you down. The 400gr 40 cal bullets around 2400fps are one of the best combinations ever developed. Keep everyone informed of your progress. Good hunting. Bill Boggs

 

[bigfish3]

The cartridge print that I posted should have some clarification to it. This print is based on measurements from RCBS on a fired cartidge that has been resized. I did not realize this originally, but all the fired brass I sent in had already been sized and decapped. So these measurements represent a cartridge ready to prime and load. I used my expensive Northern Tool dial caliper and read the o.d. at the neck of .451 and i.d. of .421/.422. The action in this rifle is a Remington Express Model 30 s/n 22290.
This project is being worked by myself, Mike Askins and my brother David Askins. We presently live in Blaine, WA.
I stated earlier that I would post a rifle weight. Well, I went out and bought new batteries for my daughter's scale. She decided to install them using a pair of tweezers. When you short out electronics, they don't work any longer. 'nuff said about the scales!!!
I wish to thank all to have contributed to our knowledge base with their responses. We look forward to any assistance and suggestions. We still have a few bugs to work out, but we are getting there. Keep the faith!!!