40gr Nosler Varmint 223ai loads.

[pjd]

I'm working on a fast and flat load but being a 223ai solid info is pretty scarce.

I started with a max load from a 223 (28gr h4895), sent 10 down range with pretty meh results (barely sub moa, not great s/d) but velocities averaging just under the 3800 mark, so I knew I was barking up the right tree. I loaded up 5 more each of 28.2 and 28.4 and the 28.2 (@3850~) was more of the same, but the 28.4 (@3890~) had a significantly lower s/d and about a 0.6moa group (rifle happily shoots 0.5-0.75moa 10 round groups consistently with my heavier pet load for reference).

This begs the question... How far do I push this load? Do I just load up more at 28.4 and play with seating depth (not that there's much wiggle room with a 40gr) and confirm my data? I'm running rws primers, which aren't extra thick as far as I know, but I'm seeing no signs of pressure from any of the 20 rounds fired so far, nice rounded primers, no signs on the brass, action is running smoothly...

Does anyone have any experience and insight?

 

[JB10]

I would now chase seating depth, at least i do it that way. I find the powder charge that shot the best then seating depth test it

 

[urbanrifleman]

27.5 aa2015 is pretty much the top.

So, you are right there. Basically a full case of h4895. 28.5 has got to be pretty full. Basically scoop the case in powder and stick a bullet in it. I wouldn't expect those super light bullets are going to give you benchrest type groups.

 

[Hal]

Is it going to be hotter, temperature wise when you shoot these?

Hal

 

[Gabe22BR]

I wouldn't expect those super light bullets are going to give you benchrest type groups.

Ya sure about that ????
This from a little plain 221 FB …shot at 100yds from Kreiger #3 1-14” twist @ 22” …

a .045” jump tighten up even more…

 

[urbanrifleman]

Ya sure about that ????View attachment 1558583
This from a little plain 221 FB …shot at 100yds from Kreiger #3 1-14” twist @ 22” …

a .045” jump tighten up even more…

Well sure. I certainly did not mean to imply they won't shoot. More that when you go for those high velocities they won't shoot those little bug holes repeatedly.

More reasonable speeds will most likely produce the little dots.

Either way, I stand corrected.

 

[Gabe22BR]

Yeah, they shoot repeatedly at my little 2845FPs…

Just not sure most folks know how to tune a rifle, when they get 1/2-1/4” groups at 100yds & quit… & say good enough…

-I found a powder charge that printed small.-

Then spent awhile finding seating depths..
Shooting a ladder of 2 shots groups and a barrel warmer for when it cooled off completely- not get the barrel hot
Cleaning every 25rds- 3rds to get fouled in - fan blowing on barrel-

+12 to .080” jump using 2 shot groups to get 2 cut same hole-

Working on the smallest group printed-
Went back to powder charges- & added more to find max velocity & pressure signs in MY rifle- mostly way above what “book” suggests…

Then fine tune seating depth.003” both ways to see…

I found several velocity nodes & seating depths along the way.. from 67* in the morning to 92* in the evening-
Cause what works in morning won’t work in evening-
Also shooting over flags helps a bunch!!!

 

[Gabe22BR]

This morning test w/ different powder & bullet combo-
Finding my holds from 100-200yd-300yd
Winds @ 8mph west

 

[pjd]

Is it going to be hotter, temperature wise when you shoot these?

Hal

Yeah, definitely and that's one of my concerns. It was about 10c doing this testing and there's a decent chance I'll shoot them to 30+c. Having said that, I haven't noticed any velocity differences with temp with my other ammo loaded with h4895.

 

[pjd]

27.5 aa2015 is pretty much the top.

So, you are right there. Basically a full case of h4895. 28.5 has got to be pretty full. Basically scoop the case in powder and stick a bullet in it. I wouldn't expect those super light bullets are going to give you benchrest type groups.

Yeah, the cases are getting pretty full one way or the other.

 

[ggshoots]

PJD, I'm curious as to what twist you are shooting. I'm running 40's on a little cartridge I made at 3050fps with N110 and they shoot very well out of both a 14 and 16 twist. I do have a 1/8" twist 223AI I would like to try them in. Shoots 50's great at 3230fps with H322.

 

[Bill K]

You made me smile Urbanrifleman. That is exactly how we used to load our 222 Rem's back in the fifty and sixties, with a 50 grain bullet and 4895. And it was a darn accurate load.

 

[Ackman]

My 223ai is a 14 twist, 25” long. With 40’s the load is 2015 powder….28.5gr=4096. 29.0=almost 4200. But the load I always shoot is 50’s with 133 doing 3825. Brass is very tough IMI, 7-1/2 primers.

 

[pjd]

PJD, I'm curious as to what twist you are shooting. I'm running 40's on a little cartridge I made at 3050fps with N110 and they shoot very well out of both a 14 and 16 twist. I do have a 1/8" twist 223AI I would like to try them in. Shoots 50's great at 3230fps with H322.

I'm running a 1:8 twist. Most of what gets shot out of this rifle is 75gr eldms out to 500M @ 2950 fps... But I wanted to try something different.

 

[pjd]

My 223ai is a 14 twist, 25” long. With 40’s the load is 2015 powder….28.5gr=4096. 29.0=almost 4200. But the load I always shoot is 50’s with 133 doing 3825. Brass is very tough IMI, 7-1/2 primers.

Because I'm running a faster twist I'm probably losing a few fps and gaining a little pressure... But seeing that you're running a load that much higher than max 223 in 2015 gives me a little confidence I can move up a few steps.

I might throw statistical significance out the window and just load some 3 round groups up at 0.1gr steps, starting back at 28.2 just to confirm data, see how they group and look on the chrono and go from there. Honestly I think I'm gonna start compressing too much before I get to 29. ADI brass seems to be fairly thick and sturdy also, not much internal volume...

 

[ggshoots]

I just loaded up some 75 BTHP Hornady with 25gr TAC and they were running right at 2925fps in an 8twist. Trying TAC as its cheap and I use it for AR15 and I have a great 308 load with 168SMK.

 

[Gabe22BR]

Because I'm running a faster twist I'm probably losing a few fps and gaining a little pressure... But seeing that you're running a load that much higher than max 223 in 2015 gives me a little confidence I can move up a few steps.

I might throw statistical significance out the window and just load some 3 round groups up at 0.1gr steps, starting back at 28.2 just to confirm data, see how they group and look on the chrono and go from there. Honestly I think I'm gonna start compressing too much before I get to 29. ADI brass seems to be fairly thick and sturdy also, not much internal volume...

Got .2gr … or .3

Less wasted components

You’ll be compressing some.. use a 6”-8” drop tube to get it in- slow pour….,

 

[pjd]

I just loaded up some 75 BTHP Hornady with 25gr TAC and they were running right at 2925fps in an 8twist. Trying TAC as its cheap and I use it for AR15 and I have a great 308 load with 168SMK.

I'm an Aussie, so Hodgdon/ADI powders are fairly easy to come by, but that's about it, so I don't get to experiment with all the things you guys do... I picked up a new 4kg jug of ADI2206H (H4895) for the equivalent of US$30/lb the other month though, so that takes the sting off it.

 

[JohnD]

I load H-335 with 40 gr. Noslers in my .223AI 1-12 twist. 3900 fps if memory serves and very accurate. Matter of fact that bullet has produced incredible accuracy across several different cartridges at widely different speeds.

John

 

[boltfluter]

I load H-335 with 40 gr. Noslers in my .223AI 1-12 twist. 3900 fps if memory serves and very accurate. Matter of fact that bullet has produced incredible accuracy across several different cartridges at widely different speeds.

John

My 14 twist Tikka. 223 rips along at 3850 fps with H335 and a Moly 40 V-max. Tiny groups. Coyotes are not happy about this! Lol.
Paul