.38 spl and soot

[Rob Crummel]

Good morning. I loaded .38 spl with an OAL of 1.450, using 6.3g of CFE Pistol, and Hornady 125g XTP. It shot fine (Taurus 66 4”) but I noticed the case mouth and half way down one side was black. Also, there was unburnt powder in the case and barrel.

I used the data shown on Hodgdon site; the high load for .38 spl (not +p).

I read from Accurate Reloading manual, the soot is caused by an improper seal in the chamber(?)

1. Is that an accurate assumption/cause and 2. How do I approach a solution to this?

What causes an improper seal using an revolver? Or rather, what would the cause of case soot in a revolver?

Thanks for any help.

 

[JSH]

Work hardened brass, low pressure. What kind of crimp and how much.
Unburnt powder in a 38 case, bad primer or more crimp, powder may be to slow.
I don’t use the powder you describe. A lot of folks use tightgroup. I will keep my dirty filthy bullseye powder thank you.

The 125’s may prefer a faster powder. I myself would suggest unique. It has been around a longgggg time. Works in 25’s to 45’s.

 

[Oso]

Rob,

This is not uncommon since a revolver is not a closed chamber like a semi-auto so tendency to have more blowback with some gas/soot escaping back around the case in the cylinder. I am assuming you are shooting .38 Special through a revolver chambered in .357 Magnum so there is a bit of space inside the cylinder (difference in case lengths) in which the combustion occurs before the bullet jumps across the gap and down the barrel. You will always have significantly more soot on revolver cases compared to semi-auto cases

CFE Pistol is not the cleanest powder, but by far no where near the dirtiest powder. Before you get too deep thinking about a potential issue that may/may not exist, try switching to a powder better suited for revolver (cleaner burning). I would suggest that you buy 1lbs of Trail Boss and make a couple of dozen cases. I bet you will see a dramatic decrease in soot. If you don't then start chasing other potential causes.

 

[Oso]

Work hardened brass, low pressure. What kind of crimp and how much.
Unburnt powder in a 38 case, bad primer or more crimp, powder may be to slow.
I don’t use the powder you describe. A lot of folks use tightgroup. I will keep my dirty filthy bullseye powder thank you.

The 125’s may prefer a faster powder. I myself would suggest unique. It has been around a longgggg time. Works in 25’s to 45’s.

Unique is really Dirty... if you want to push the velocity the use Bullseye and Titegroup. Both burn very clean, with Bullseye having a better recoil impulse. I am loading 160's at moderate velocity using Trail Boss, which is slightly cleaner then Bullseye or Titegroup, best recoil impulse, and great case fill (no risk of double charge).

 

[JSH]

Lol, I still chuckle at dirty powder comments. No offense meant.
Bullseye,Unique and 2400 see the most use from me.

Ya can always tell an IHMSA wheel gun shooter and if he is left or right handed by the powder stain about the middle of his pants pocket

I agree hole heartedly on the small charges one HAS to pay attention.

If this is a 357 mag and not a 38...... not a fan of this practice.

 

[riflewoman]

The problem here is most likely the powder. CFE is sooty as heck in my 9mm but it shoots decently so I’m not changing...

I’d try a powder like BE-86 or Win 231 or Win 244 or WSF.

 

[farmerjohn]

Work hardened brass, low pressure. What kind of crimp and how much.
Unburnt powder in a 38 case, bad primer or more crimp, powder may be to slow.
I don’t use the powder you describe. A lot of folks use tightgroup. I will keep my dirty filthy bullseye powder thank you

The 125’s may prefer a faster powder. I myself would suggest unique. It has been around a longgggg time. Works in 25’s to 45’s.

Unique is my favorite handgun power for any load other than pure match loads or full house max loads and it will work for a match load in a lot of cases...

 

[2506]

I have been shooting and loading for the 38 Special for about 40 years so I am old school as powders go. Bullseye and Unique are my go to powders. Bullseye for target loads with lead 148 HBWC and 158 SWC. For jacketed bullets which are for mainly self defense 125 through 158 gr usually at +P pressure I use Unique. It may be dirty but that is what cleaning solvent is made for. I have tried Hodgdon CLAYS with HBWC and SWC target loads and it burns cleaner and shoots good. My carry load for my snubby 38 Special consists of a +P load of Unique and Speers 135 Short Barrel Gold Dot. It runs 850 fps from the 2" barrel is very accurate and expands nicely.

 

[Rob Crummel]

Thank you for all your insights! I greatly appreciate the time spent and knowledge shared.

I’m gonna try a .357 mag load using the same gun, same powder, and same projectile. The only difference will be the charge and primer. In theory, it shouldn’t be as ‘sooty’ because the cartridge will fit the cylinder.

 

[chassisman]

I'm using BR 5 and coated bullets. Very clean !

 

[Tangent]

Light loads with Bullseye and Unique have always given me sooty cases. I've never worried about it, chuck them in the case cleaner, sorted. Still shot well at 50m when I was shooting the 1500.

 

[SeabeeKen]

Most powders burn somewhat dirty but get cleaner as pressures go up. I use universal clays which is one of the cleanest powders ive ever used. I agree that cfe pistol might be a bit slow burning for your bullet and low pressure cartridge.

 

[Idaho-Lefty]

I've Found that, Flakey Unique,. "Throws/ Meters", charges,.. POORLY,..
I use, a +P charge ( Close to, 6 grs ) of, good ole' Winchester 231 with, Sierra JHP / JSP, 125's for, GREAT Accuracy, in my 1-16 twist, .38 spl., 6 inch, S & W.
It's also, TERRIFIC @ 5.2 grains, in, my 9 MM Glock, G-34, 5" with,.. Hornady, JHP, 124's !