.38 special reloading

[mousegunner]

Starting to load .38s. I have RP and Federal once fired brass, BE, Hornady 158 LSWCs, CCI SPP and Lee dies.

After sizing I see .373 at the case mouth, after flaring I see .376-.377, after seating bullet .379. Taper crimp and I end up with .376 again, same as after flaring the case. I seat and crimp in separte operations on a single stage press.

Looks like I'm crimping .003 and when I push the bullet against the table it doesn't slide into the case and the rounds chamber fine. Question I have is what number do I need to look at as far as crimp on the case?

Second question, The expander plug on the Lee dies move up slightly before it flares the case. Wouldn't it be better if it was fixed? In any case I'm also going to get some NOE M type expanders to fit the Lee die and wondering if it also floats inside the die, anyone know or use them?

 

[LCazador]

Sounds like you don't have the dies adjusted properly. Set the seating for bullet seating crimp first then set the die for seating depth. Sounds like you are crimping the case first before the bullet is fully seated. Floating is actually better since it'll adjust for imperfections in case entry into the die.

 

[mousegunner]

I seat and crimp separately, I forgot to mention that. I also got off the phone with NOE and they said their plugs may not work with the existing expander die I have. They're more for the Lee universal expander. I'd have to get 3 Lyman M dies for my 3 pistol calibers or buy the Universal and switch out the plugs, which I didn't want to be doing.

 

[andym686]

I seat and crimp separately, I forgot to mention that. I also got off the phone with NOE and they said their plugs may not work with the existing expander die I have. They're more for the Lee universal expander. I'd have to get 3 Lyman M dies for my 3 pistol calibers or buy the Universal and switch out the plugs, which I didn't want to be doing.

I agree with mousegunner - seat and crimp separately.

 

[cw308]

On my 38 spl. Reloads , sizing with the RCBS sizing die. I use the Lyman expander M die as a flare . Then seat and finish up with the Lee Factory (roll) Crimp Die. I pop my primers first then wet tumble with SS Pins , does a great job , my brass looks brand new inside and out . Makes it easier to see any problems in the cases and better on the dies.

 

[jepp2]

once fired brass, BE, Hornady 158 LSWCs, CCI SPP and Lee dies.

What brinell are your 158 lwsc? If they are soft and these are pip squeak loads, just close your flare. You are running around 0.005" neck tension. I doubt you are shooting hard case lead with BE. Matching your pressure/velocity to the lead hardness is critical to avoid leading (right after throat diameters).

I'd have to get 3 Lyman M dies for my 3 pistol calibers or buy the Universal and switch out the plugs, which I didn't want to be doing.

If you are going to shoot those wheel guns much, you will regret that decision.

 

[Twicepop]

The previous posts about crimping as a separate step from seating is some of the best advice you'll get. You can seat and crimp in the same step, but any change in components will require you to re-set up the die. I use RCBS carbide dies for all my handgun loading, the semi-autos have LEE factory crimp dies with the carbide insert. The revolver dies have an RCBS factory seating/crimp die with the seating stem removed and used as a dedicated crimp die. I try to have my revolver cases trimmed to plus(+) or minus (-) .003" of my target length to get uniform crimps, too short won't create any problems but a too long case will buckle the sidewall right below the case mouth. Another option would be to get a taper crimp die and uniform case length isn't a concern. Redding makes a great taper crimp die that will work with all bullets cast, swaged, plated, jacketed, with cannelure or not. If you load any hot loads with slow burning powders, a secure crimp is needed to ensure complete powder combustion.
Don't concern yourself with the numbers after flaring, you only need enough case mouth flare to not shave lead when seating cast or swaged bullets (especially swaged). A light case mouth chamfer will help with this also.

 

[mousegunner]

I'm using the Hornady swaged LSWC so they're softer than the hard cast. I flare enough to get the base in and taper crimp enough to remove the flare BUT I came across another issue. Federal brass is thicker than RP brass.

I was using both type of cases but came across a few where the bullet could be pushed in even after crimping. Diameter of both cases were the same but wall thickness was .001 thinner on the RP brass. If some of the swaged bullets are just a little smaller then they don't grip well in the looser RP brass. This sucks since I have more RP brass than Federal. It's still useable but I'll separate the 2 brands of brass and check the RP brass for bullet set back when I load it.

I'll try some hard cast later and see if I have the same problem with the RP brass or jacketed bullets if I can find some.

 

[Rsadams]

I kinda skimmed through this thread... 38.spl is the only one I was glad to never load again... Because it's an old black powder cartridge you can screw up fast.... The cases are only half filled and that's a double charge with most powders..... It's the only time I got a double charge but was following the rules and cought it... It was my only dangerous mistake since I have been reloading..... A valuable lesson learned....

 

[JSH]

Worry about numbers, after you have “numbers” from the revolver your shooting them in.
You can actually size those cast bullets with some crimp dies, from to much crimp. Cast bullets should be sized to the rig for best accuracy.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

The Lee 3 die set, adjust seating die seat bullets. Than adjust(turn die down) for desired crimp. Cases need to be same length, to much crimp will deform soft nose bullets. I have started reloading 38sp, so far only loading jacketed bullets so not flaring case mouths.

 

[cw308]

mousegunner
Look into the Lee Factory Crimp (roll) Die . I also shoot Federal , RP & Win. If the Federal sized case fits in your cylinders , when loaded it should also fit . There much be a bulge at the bullet and case mouth area. I use the Lyman M Die for all my handguns , it expands the mouth to except the bullet and instead of a flare it creates a step to keep the bullet aligned . Removed the bulge especially in 45acp.
I also replaced my RCBS seat/crimp die with the Lee FCD for my last step in crimping (roll) This die will insure trouble free chambering in rounds that weren't alighed properly. You should always try to properly align the round but every once and a while one goes south. This die will allow the round to feed. After using the FCD in my 45 , I haven't had any problems 100%.try to seat and crimp in separate steps. Most of us don't trim our pistol cases for that perfect crimp . Setting the crimp die at your last step you can set it where your not under or over crimping your cases without trimming. Hope I Helped in some way.
Chris
PS: Revolver - roll crimp
Auto- taper crimp

 

[centershot]

mousegunner
Look into the Lee Factory Crimp (roll) Die . I also shoot Federal , RP & Win. If the Federal sized case fits in your cylinders , when loaded it should also fit . There much be a bulge at the bullet and case mouth area. I use the Lyman M Die for all my handguns , it expands the mouth to except the bullet and instead of a flare it creates a step to keep the bullet aligned . Removed the bulge especially in 45acp.
I also replaced my RCBS seat/crimp die with the Lee FCD for my last step in crimping (roll) This die will insure trouble free chambering in rounds that weren't alighed properly. You should always try to properly align the round but every once and a while one goes south. This die will allow the round to feed. After using the FCD in my 45 , I haven't had any problems 100%.try to seat and crimp in separate steps. Most of us don't trim our pistol cases for that perfect crimp . Setting the crimp die at your last step you can set it where your not under or over crimping your cases without trimming. Hope I Helped in some way.
Chris
PS: Revolver - roll crimp
Auto- taper crimp

So is the FCD a roll crimp? Just bought one for my .38 Special.

 

[cw308]

You can order with a taper or a roll, if you ordered the 38/357 Lee FCD it will be the roll crimp . I started out with the RCBS Carbide 38/357 3 Die Set , I could seat and crimp in one stroke , that die first has to be adjusted where the die screws down to touch the case mouth and back out a half turn , then seat the bullet . Then back out the seating plug , lower the die for proper crimp then lower the seating plug to touch the bullet , lock the plug and your good to go , seats and tapers in one stroke. I like to seat all first the use the Lee FCD to crimp. For me it works perfect. You won't be disappointed.
Chris

 

[Hoser]

Try this.

Head to the range with 6 rounds. Measure OAL of #6. Load all 6 in the cylinder. Dont fire #6 and take it out after shooting the other 5. Measure it. If it got longer, you need more crimp. If not, your crimp is fine.

Too much crimp will destroy accuracy and also buckle the case. So if you dont see the case buckling and the load is accurate, you should be fine.

 

[mjl650]

Try this.

Head to the range with 6 rounds. Measure OAL of #6. Load all 6 in the cylinder. Dont fire #6 and take it out after shooting the other 5. Measure it. If it got longer, you need more crimp. If not, your crimp is fine.

Too much crimp will destroy accuracy and also buckle the case. So if you dont see the case buckling and the load is accurate, you should be fine.

I also do this to check my crimp.

 

[cw308]

In rifle rounds the neck tension is enough to hold the bullet in place , with revolver reloads over crimping will cause a bulge , by removing the case flare and giving the case a slight roll crimp , you will see a slight bright ring around the case mouth for a perfect crimp. Not to little or too much , just go slow and by feel. Using a taper crimp , the case neck tension is holding the bullet your removing the flare. When loading at the top of the powder loading scale ( hot loads) you could add alittle more crimp hold . Not a fan on hot loads , undo stress on the handgun and not fun to shoot..

 

[centershot]

I believe this was the first cartridge that I reloaded. Very straight forward. C H die set, which I still have. Upgraded years later when someone told me about carbide. Still load for my wife. 148 wad cutters.

 

[divingin]

In rifle rounds the neck tension is enough to hold the bullet in place , with revolver reloads over crimping will cause a bulge , by removing the case flare and giving the case a slight roll crimp , you will see a slight bright ring around the case mouth for a perfect crimp. Not to little or too much , just go slow and by feel. Using a taper crimp , the case neck tension is holding the bullet your removing the flare. When loading at the top of the powder loading scale ( hot loads) you could add alittle more crimp hold . Not a fan on hot loads , undo stress on the handgun and not fun to shoot..

One other problem you may run into with taper crimping is with brass springback. Trying to put too much of a taper crimp on cast lead bullets will resize the bullet in addition to squeezing the brass. When removed from the die, the brass springs back a bit, opening up, but the bullet doesn't. This leaves less bullet hold than if you were using less crimp pressure.

With a roll crimp, trying to put too much of a crimp on will accordion the case somewhere lower down, causing a bulge that will prevent the cartridge from chambering.

Either way, you should try and use the least you can get away with to avoid those problems.

I personally prefer a slight roll crimp on 38Spl, but you do have to deal with inconsistency from differing case lengths. Then again, on my S&W 52, the roll crimp helps with feeding by minimizing sharp corners that hang up on the feed ramp. That may or may not be an issue with your .38.

 

[cw308]

divingin
I sold my S&W 52 to a friend , shot only was cutters, great pistol. Wasn't doing much target shooting at the time , now retired I'd be shooting it for sure. Shot great , opperated 100% , S&W turned out some nice handguns back then.