357 with Win 296

[Poconolg]

I want to load 357 with Extreme 125gr plated bullets using Win 296. The only loads I found in books were for jacketed bullets. Hornady shows 18.8 - 20.9. Sierra shows 18.6 - 21.1. Speer says 18.3 - 20.3 and Winchester says 18.5 with no variation. Does anyone know a safe load for Extreme bullets?

 

[6.5 forever]

Just a side note. Hopefully you have at least a six inch barrel. Anything shorter will produce a big fireball on ignition. 296 is better suited for heavy bullets and longer barrels.

 

[watercam]

Go to the Extreme website and look up the recommended maximum velocity for the bullet in question.

 

[K22]

Just a side note. Hopefully you have at least a six inch barrel. Anything shorter will produce a big fireball on ignition. 296 is better suited for heavy bullets and longer barrels.

I can attest to this positively having 50 years' experience with this excellent cartridge.

The 125 grain bullets are my favorite for this caliber. Unless you need ultimate velocity / energy, I found that faster powders work better with this bullet weight. Of course, use only published and tested data.

My favorite powder for both the outstanding 125 Hornady XTP jacketed bullets and Oregon Trail Laser Cast bullets is 231. It gives decent velocity with mild muzzle flash in my 4" Model S&W Model 19. It is also extremely accurate and pleasant to shoot. Another benefit is that in doesn't put excessive stress on the light K frame. After many thousands of rounds, over many years, my Model 19 is still tight and in time.

 

[linebaugh]

296 is always run as a max load and not probably intended for soft plated bullets.
I shot so many 125 jacketed over 296 I literally rattled a gp100 loose.
As stated above probably better powders for your intended use and also if you do use 296 step up to 140+ on bullet weight as it is a much better fit.

 

[lotech]

One of the few times I've seen a fireball on a bright sunny day was using 296 in a 6" Python. The fireball and horrendous blast will likely be worse with light bullets and heavier charges than what I was using with 158 grain cast SWCs.

I've found accuracy with 296 excellent, certainly the equal of, but no better than #2400. You can get slightly more velocity with 296, but not enough to matter.

 

[farmerjohn]

I checked the site for extreme plated bullets and they caution about going past 1500 fps but the dead giveaway is recommending a taper crimp. In my experience a heavy roll crimp is necessary with the slower powders. A roll crimp will cut through the plating and cause leading in my experience. I've shot a lot of 125gr bullets in my carbines at the higher velocity's and had to use copper jackets. The plated bullets will work well for handguns if you keep them under 1200fps and use little faster powder and taper crimp them... IMHO, John

 

[rockhound78]

I would imagine 125's and 296 might be a bit rough on the forcing cone too

 

[Charliemac]

I would imagine 125's and 296 might be a bit rough on the forcing cone too

Not to mention the top strap above, it'll definitely burn a groove in it.

 

[Andy Work]

Not to mention the top strap above, it'll definitely burn a groove in it.

You read my mind. I was always told the lighter bullets were the worse.

 

[Charliemac]

I only shoot fast light bullets in my Marlin 94 or contender for that reason. Those loads will gas cut before you know it. My S&W M28 only shoots light and mid-range loads now because of that.

 

[ahumansa]

I can attest to this positively having 50 years' experience with this excellent cartridge.

The 125 grain bullets are my favorite for this caliber. Unless you need ultimate velocity / energy, I found that faster powders work better with this bullet weight. Of course, use only published and tested data.

My favorite powder for both the outstanding 125 Hornady XTP jacketed bullets and Oregon Trail Laser Cast bullets is 231. It gives decent velocity with mild muzzle flash in my 4" Model S&W Model 19. It is also extremely accurate and pleasant to shoot. Another benefit is that in doesn't put excessive stress on the light K frame. After many thousands of rounds, over many years, my Model 19 is still tight and in time.

Hi K22, do you use SP or SPM primers for this load? I recently got a new Python in 4inch and being new to American Powders and having a lever action 357 (trying to get one load for both revolver and LA was not a smart path to venture onto) I started of with H110. In the Colt it was just not comfortable, nor particularly accurate. I tried 158 and 180gr (just for kicks - and it did...) and used SPM primers as I was loading H110. You refenced this load a couple of times on the forum, but I missed if you mentioned the primer you are using.

 

[Tacoma]

Old thread alert.

 

[ELR LVR]

Old thread alert.

They have better titles though :/

 

[SeabeeKen]

I want to load 357 with Extreme 125gr plated bullets using Win 296. The only loads I found in books were for jacketed bullets. Hornady shows 18.8 - 20.9. Sierra shows 18.6 - 21.1. Speer says 18.3 - 20.3 and Winchester says 18.5 with no variation. Does anyone know a safe load for Extreme bullets?

The page from their data. It doesn't list 296 data but I can highly recommend N-110. I have found it superbly accurate in my rifle and friends handguns. I suspect 296 may be too much power for the plated bullets, causing deformation in the forcing cone. This could be the reason it isn't list by hodgdon or extreme.

 

[K22]

Hi K22, do you use SP or SPM primers for this load? I recently got a new Python in 4inch and being new to American Powders and having a lever action 357 (trying to get one load for both revolver and LA was not a smart path to venture onto) I started of with H110. In the Colt it was just not comfortable, nor particularly accurate. I tried 158 and 180gr (just for kicks - and it did...) and used SPM primers as I was loading H110. You refenced this load a couple of times on the forum, but I missed if you mentioned the primer you are using.

Standard Federal 100 primers with 231.

I've tried a lot of powders and bullet combinations with the 38 Special and 357 Magnums over the many years of shooting these fine cartridges. Here's what learned specifically regarding the 357 Magnum:

1. Old Man Load: These days I shoot mostly mild 38+P loads (38 cases) in my 357 Magnum revolvers using 125 XTP's with 5.6 grains of 231 and Federal Standard 100 Primers.

2. For general purpose use, supreme accuracy, and tolerable recoil my favorite load is 7.0 grains of 231 with 125 XTP and Federal 100 standard small pistol primers. Check the published data but this is in with prescribed load density in the Speer Manual. This is an effective, supremely accurate load. You may have to vary the load density a bit to achieve optimum accuracy in your revolver but stay within published load data.

3. For varmint / predator hunting, I like the 140 grain bullets with 2400 and standard Federal 100 primers. This is for full power load and effective. Also, for full power loads this powder also works well with 125 grain bullets.

4. While I've taken 1 white tail with the 357 Magnum, I do not consider it adequate for deer thus I never found a need for the heavy bullets in the 357 Magnum. However, for maximum penetration the 158 grain bullets are superior. Slower pistol powders should be used with these bullets.

4. H100 and 296 are good choices for the heavier bullet in this caliber but I always obtained my best accuracy with 2400. With these powders, H110 and 296, you need magnum primers. I never could get adequate expansion with the heavier bullets. For full powder loads in this cartridge, I found that the 140 grain bullets with 2400 powder is ideal giving good energy, velocity and expansion especially with the XTP's.

Special Note: One precaution must be observed if you decide to try 231 powder. You must establish a fail-safe reloading procedure to assure that you do NOT double charge a case. A double charge of 231 will fit in a 357 magnum cases and will blow up you gun and potential cause physical harm to you. BE CAREFUL.

 

[charlie b]

I reloaded for the .357 for several decades. 90% of my shooting was with starting loads or just above .38 +P.

I used a lot of Unique and 2400 in the old days. Changed to AA5 or AA7 depending on the level of the load. Every now and then I would use light loads with AA2 or WW231. As above, check for double charges.

I never used plated bullets in the .357. There was a caution when using them with a roll crimp. Since I crimped most loads I didn't use them. Most of my shooting back then was with cast bullets (gas checks for heavy loads). I did use a lot of plated bullets in the .45acp, taper crimped.

When I did load hot 125gn I'd use commercial jacketed bullets.

Plated bullets have changed over the years. Look at the mfg web site and see what they recommend. I know Berry's was really good about such information and is also doing some thicker plating.

 

[ahumansa]

Standard Federal 100 primers with 231.

I've tried a lot of powders and bullet combinations with the 38 Special and 357 Magnums over the many years of shooting these fine cartridges. Here's what learned specifically regarding the 357 Magnum:

1. Old Man Load: These days I shoot mostly mild 38+P loads (38 cases) in my 357 Magnum revolvers using 125 XTP's with 5.6 grains of 231 and Federal Standard 100 Primers.

2. For general purpose use, supreme accuracy, and tolerable recoil my favorite load is 7.0 grains of 231 with 125 XTP and Federal 100 standard small pistol primers. Check the published data but this is in with prescribed load density in the Speer Manual. This is an effective, supremely accurate load. You may have to vary the load density a bit to achieve optimum accuracy in your revolver but stay within published load data.

3. For varmint / predator hunting, I like the 140 grain bullets with 2400 and standard Federal 100 primers. This is for full power load and effective. Also, for full power loads this powder also works well with 125 grain bullets.

4. While I've taken 1 white tail with the 357 Magnum, I do not consider it adequate for deer thus I never found a need for the heavy bullets in the 357 Magnum. However, for maximum penetration the 158 grain bullets are superior. Slower pistol powders should be used with these bullets.

4. H100 and 296 are good choices for the heavier bullet in this caliber but I always obtained my best accuracy with 2400. With these powders, H110 and 296, you need magnum primers. I never could get adequate expansion with the heavier bullets. For full powder loads in this cartridge, I found that the 140 grain bullets with 2400 powder is ideal giving good energy, velocity and expansion especially with the XTP's.

Special Note: One precaution must be observed if you decide to try 231 powder. You must establish a fail-safe reloading procedure to assure that you do NOT double charge a case. A double charge of 231 will fit in a 357 magnum cases and will blow up you gun and potential cause physical harm to you. BE CAREFUL.

Hi K22, Thanks a lot for this. I had some cases with SPM already in and loaded Berry's 125gr Thick Plate Flat Point and Hornady XTP 125gr. Load Data and measured velocities below:

HOR 125 GR XTP	Berry 125GR FP
7.5GR W231	7.0GR W231
Fed SPM Match	Fed SPM Match
1308.9	1262
	1266	1158.7
	1239.5	1154.1
	1231.5	1086.9
	1223.6	1164.3
	1186.2	1190.6
1242.6	1169.4
37.9	52
122.7	175.1

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It was a bright day and my front sight, that I changed out (Green Fiber Optic), was not helping in checking accuracy. The "kick" was still stout, but manageable. I will reduce the load further per your recommendation and will use Standard CCI Small Pistol Primers. I did see that the fill volume with W231 in the 357 case is pretty low (not the lowest I have seen though), and hence will take even greater care when reloading the next batch. Should get another chance this weekend. Will keep you posted.

 

[AckleymanII]

My load with 125s:
17.8g of IMR 7828-cci 550
18.0g of H110/296-cci 550

I lightly crimp the 7828 load, tad heavier on the 110/296

I replaced factory sights on my 6" GP100, bead front sight, V-notch rear sight, re re-sprung the trigger. Glory be, what a great shooting pistol.

 

[K22]

Hi K22, Thanks a lot for this. I had some cases with SPM already in and loaded Berry's 125gr Thick Plate Flat Point and Hornady XTP 125gr. Load Data and measured velocities below:

HOR 125 GR XTP	Berry 125GR FP
7.5GR W231	7.0GR W231
Fed SPM Match	Fed SPM Match
1308.9	1262
	1266	1158.7
	1239.5	1154.1
	1231.5	1086.9
	1223.6	1164.3
	1186.2	1190.6
1242.6	1169.4
37.9	52
122.7	175.1

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It was a bright day and my front sight, that I changed out (Green Fiber Optic), was not helping in checking accuracy. The "kick" was still stout, but manageable. I will reduce the load further per your recommendation and will use Standard CCI Small Pistol Primers. I did see that the fill volume with W231 in the 357 case is pretty low (not the lowest I have seen though), and hence will take even greater care when reloading the next batch. Should get another chance this weekend. Will keep you posted.

I forgot to mention that an adequate crimp is also critical to accuracy and powder ignition.

I prefer a mild roll crimp on all 38 and 357 magnum loads except for target loads using light powder charges and 148 grain hollow base wadcutters. While a light roll crimp and be used for the latter, I found that a taper crimp produces better accuracy.

Don't overdo the roll crimp. A proper roll crimp should result in a smooth roll into the cannelure without deforming or bulging the case mouth.