338 Lapua Bolt Options

[Blaster-37]

I recently picked up a sweet Bat M action with an extended tendon that I originally purchased new many years ago and sold it to a friend because it would not make weight limits. It now has two bolts, a 308 bolt that works for my existing gear and a 338 Lapua bolt. My interests have evolved from 1000 to XLR the past few years. My first thought was a 30/ 338L AI. Kiff suggested I neck the 338 down to the 7mm AI with a bore rider to control pressures, etc. I have several thousand 180, 195 etc. 7mm pointed/sorted bullets and a bunch of fresh 7 barrels, left over from many years of BR messing with the 7, that will fit in the M. Sweet idea but my ballistics math has some problems with that. What can I reload for that 338 bolt that will get to 2000+ yards consistently? I am not sold on the 7 at that range. I don't really want to buy a 375 bolt for that gear.
I hate to see the bolt go to waste. Mabey there is something incredible out there for it. I still love making consistent rounds and sending them. XLR is more addicting than 1K. Thanx for your advice.
Greg

 

[dkhunt14]

I am sure a 30-338 Lapua would be a good round. You have a 30-378 Weatherby and its even made in factory guns. Just because Kiff says something doesn't mean it's written in stone. If I want to shoot at 2000 yards, I want the bigger bullets so i can see impacts and washes. I personally prefer a 338 for that distance and I would improve it. Matt

 

[Sniper338]

338 Lapua AI

338 Norma AI

300 Norma AI

 

[Blaster-37]

338 Lapua AI

338 Norma AI

300 Norma AI

 

[Blaster-37]

Thank you for the info. Just for thoughts, is there anything that works in the 338 Bolt with the 7mm without getting too crazy on the neck? I have some awesome 7 solids with very high BCs that I thought would work.

 

[Blaster-37]

I am sure a 30-338 Lapua would be a good round. You have a 30-378 Weatherby and its even made in factory guns. Just because Kiff says something doesn't mean it's written in stone. If I want to shoot at 2000 yards, I want the bigger bullets so i can see impacts and washes. I personally prefer a 338 for that distance and I would improve it. Matt

Thanx Matt.

 

[germanlongbow]

I bought my first BAT M back in 2000. Started life as 300 ultra mag. Last year I bought a new BAT 338 bolt and chambered new barrel in 338 AI. I looked at wildcatting it a few times down to 7 or 30. Plenty of reamers out there. I've shot mine out to 1980 yards and plenty of life left at that distance. Good luck Scott

 

[DaveTooley]

As you go down in bore size you reach the point of diminishing returns quicker than with 30 & 338. Before the RUM there were pockets of crazies that wildcatted the 404 case. Tough RWS brass, Long barrel and slow powder we could get 3400 FPS out of 178 Cauterucio's. I wouldn't want more capacity than that in a 7.

 

[Sniper338]

I wouldnt even consider a 7mm for 2000 yards. Not reliable.

 

[dragman]

338 lapua. Don't need to complicate it. The next time maybe build a big 30 or big 7. But first big one on a lapua bolt face just make a 338 lapua

 

[Blaster-37]

I bought my first BAT M back in 2000. Started life as 300 ultra mag. Last year I bought a new BAT 338 bolt and chambered new barrel in 338 AI. I looked at wildcatting it a few times down to 7 or 30. Plenty of reamers out there. I've shot mine out to 1980 yards and plenty of life left at that distance. Good luck Scott

Thanx Scott. I am looking to send something with a much better BC than the available 338s. Sadly, I will leave the 7s with the 308 bolt although I did get some consistency with them at 1M. After 1M, I could not push them farther consistently with the 308 bolt.
Tried the Cheytac, felt like a 50 on steroids. I got along with the straight 338L a long time ago and was not as accurate as I would have liked, military...
I guess my question is 300 Norma or 30/ 338L AI. Has anyone worked on this comparison with ELR?
Greg

 

[DaveTooley]

If there is anything to be learned from 1K BR, which where I came from before my current gig, is the 33's will not compete with 30's. It's just a cold hard fact. 20% is a rough number I use for accuracy lose. Might be slightly higher than that. The best shooting 338 bullet were the gen1 Bergers. Unfortunately the jackets could up hold up when the hot rodders got hold of them and the rest is history.
With that being said everything is a compromise. At ELR seeing impacts is critical. The 33's shine there. We have some very good heavy 30's now so that's an option. Pure accuracy lives around 3000 fps. Much faster and variations in bullets show up. Kind of like race cars. The faster you go the more perfect the aero package has to be.

 

[sdean]

378 weatherby. Should be able to see those impacts.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

If I absolutely had to have a 7mm on a Lapua bolt face, I would neck down the 300 Norma Mag Case...with a twist of course.

I would improve the angle of the shoulder on a 7mm Norma Mag to 30 or 35 degrees by making the neck longer by making the top of the shoulder shorter. Catch my drift?
That way you aren't going TOO overbore with capacity, but still getting sharper shoulder to control brass stretching, and added benefit of a longer neck to help keep more of the heavy bullets out of the shoulder area of the case when seated.

 

[4xforfun]

Kinda off topic, but not really....
"extended tendon"..which I assume ( I know, I know) is tenon. How can it be made longer....unless the entire action is longer than 8.5". I understand thicker, but can't wrap my head around longer.

Sorry for the dumb question,
Tod

 

[dkhunt14]

If there is anything to be learned from 1K BR, which where I came from before my current gig, is the 33's will not compete with 30's. It's just a cold hard fact. 20% is a rough number I use for accuracy lose. Might be slightly higher than that. The best shooting 338 bullet were the gen1 Bergers. Unfortunately the jackets could up hold up when the hot rodders got hold of them and the rest is history.
With that being said everything is a compromise. At ELR seeing impacts is critical. The 33's shine there. We have some very good heavy 30's now so that's an option. Pure accuracy lives around 3000 fps. Much faster and variations in bullets show up. Kind of like race cars. The faster you go the more perfect the aero package has to be.

Dave I totally agree with this. There have been a few good 338 guns showing up here and there. When conditions get bad they win. Also I believe what hurts the 338 for 1000 yard BR is the rate of fire is slower. Even with the heavy guns recoil and tracking slows you down. The heat from the big loads of powder after shooting 8 sighter shots and 10 records probably doesn't help either. This helps the 6mm and 30 shoot more accurately at 1000 because you can shoot them so much faster.

But I believe after 1200 yards or so the accuracy starts to swing back in favor of the 338. I also believe the farther out you go, the more the 338 dominates. I have seen quite a few 338's shoot 4 to 5 shot groups at 1000. I never was impressed with the accuracy of the 338-408 Cheytac. My buddy showed me one that shoots. I was there on a cold day at Williamsport right before hunting season and that gun shot consistent 5 inch groups with 300 Sierras.

Good to hear from you, I heard you moved. Matt

 

[LA50SHOOTER]

Thanx Scott. I am looking to send something with a much better BC than the available 338s. Sadly, I will leave the 7s with the 308 bolt although I did get some consistency with them at 1M. After 1M, I could not push them farther consistently with the 308 bolt.
Tried the Cheytac, felt like a 50 on steroids. I got along with the straight 338L a long time ago and was not as accurate as I would have liked, military...
I guess my question is 300 Norma or 30/ 338L AI. Has anyone worked on this comparison with ELR?
Greg

Blaster, The 300 gr. Berger Hybrid has a B/C of 0.822 - Pretty decent when you start looking at all the presently available heavy weight bullets - I'm not saying this is your best or only option as there are other good comparably high B/C bullets out on the market. - The 338 Lapua Imp. @ 3000 fps isn't a bad choice for ELR - It will get you to 2K no problem

 

[Blaster-37]

Blaster, The 300 gr. Berger Hybrid has a B/C of 0.822 - Pretty decent when you start looking at all the presently available heavy weight bullets - I'm not saying this is your best or only option as there are other good comparably high B/C bullets out on the market. - The 338 Lapua Imp. @ 3000 fps isn't a bad choice for ELR - It will get you to 2K no problem

Thank you guys for your input. I will start with a 338 AI from the Bat M to learn more about 2000 yards plus. the 30/ 338 is always going to be the low hanging fruit. I had a lot of fun at 1 mile once I got my gear dialed in. I am hooked on the possibility of 2000 +. My best 1k loads and gear dies off hard just after 1 mile. 2000+ is a different world where 1k seems like 300. Apparently, 3k fps is still the sweet spot with the XLR like many at 1k. I hope I can get past 3k yards with some consistently with my loading and tuning skills from many successful years, getting better every year, at 1K. I have always enjoyed wind challenges. I am excited to explore the possibilities and the math. Thanx again, everybody.
Greg

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Greg, no way would I neck a lapua to 7mm. Id guess 500 rounds and you would be re barreling. I am building 338 lap imps and 300 norma imps for the 2k shoot we are going to do. Those 2 are kind of the cases I went to for each bore size. I didnt improve the norma for case capacity, I did it to get rid of the 20 degree shoulder. I thought about the 30-338 but its just bigger than I wanted. The new 230 sierra looks real good and we should see 3100+ with them, And 3000+ in the 338 imp. I have shot some very good groups with the 300 otm in an edge. Lots of 3-4" cold bore 3 shot groups at 1k, and 7" at 1550 the only time I put it on paper out there. Didnt shoot 5 shot groups with that rifle as it was a LR hunter. My edge falls off hard at about 2200 yards. I would say the 338 imp will take it to 2500+ with consistency.

 

[Blaster-37]

Greg, no way would I neck a lapua to 7mm. Id guess 500 rounds and you would be re barreling. I am building 338 lap imps and 300 norma imps for the 2k shoot we are going to do. Those 2 are kind of the cases I went to for each bore size. I didnt improve the norma for case capacity, I did it to get rid of the 20 degree shoulder. I thought about the 30-338 but its just bigger than I wanted. The new 230 sierra looks real good and we should see 3100+ with them, And 3000+ in the 338 imp. I have shot some very good groups with the 300 otm in an edge. Lots of 3-4" cold bore 3 shot groups at 1k, and 7" at 1550 the only time I put it on paper out there. Didnt shoot 5 shot groups with that rifle as it was a LR hunter. My edge falls off hard at about 2200 yards. I would say the 338 imp will take it to 2500+ with consistency.

Alex, it's very good to hear from you, one of the great shooters I admire the most from my travels. Thank you very much for the good advice and time. I heard about the 2K in the Big Hole. I am not consistent at 2K yet with my current gear, thus the post.
I have local friend that called last night who seriously wants a 338L imp. built with all the best if you have the time. I did not know you were building XLR gear. I mentioned your name along with the Wheeler Accuracy site for serious accuracy. I will call you to do a barrel for me as I have not ordered a reamer yet. I have a good set up for 3K+ near my ranch in the Bitterroot. I don't miss the matchs as much as making very good rounds, tuning the barrels and working the wind when I am home. The plaques on the walls make pretty thin soup. I am satisfied with the small group of the year plaque at that I did not expect it shooting against that incredibly talented world class group of shooters. IMO under 4" groups at 1k requires some serious luck and more commitment than anyone that has a life can do.
Your shooting skills, innovations and advice with no secrets has improved 1K shooting across the board, you are the man.
On a side note, Bill Brown's widow needs some help dispersing around 52 guns and tons of related stuff... I suggested they make an inventory and start at 50% of retail. Perhaps a yard sale at Deep Creek like we did for Dwayne Capehart if the group approves it. She could use the help... Thanx again Alex, take care.