338-300 ultra / 338 edge brass issues

[JMUPT]

I picked up a 338-300 ultra a while ago and haven't gotten around to shooting it until recently. The rifle came with 15 pieces of 300 ultra mag brass and 100 pieces of new 338 edge Bertram brass. I loaded up the ultra mag brass and had no issues, but when I went to load the bertram brass the round had a stiff bolt close. So I looked at the brass and noticed the bertram brass was a little longer in the neck than the ultra mag brass so I trimed it to the same length. Well I guess I should have looked at the brass a little better, because it is still hard to chamber and close the bolt. Looking at the shoulder area the bertram brass seems to have a rounded shoulder compared to the ultra mag brass. I think this may be my issue. I tried setting up my sizing die to push the shoulder back to see if that would help, but my shell holder bottoms out on my die before the shoulder gets pushed back enough. So my question is what should I do next, just go with ultra mag brass, or what can I do to change the angle of the shoulder on the bertram brass. Here is a link to a picture of the brass. THe ultra mag brass are the 2 on the left and the 3 on the right are the Bertram brass.

http://i808.photobucket.com/albums/zz5/JMUPT/IMG_20150903_015319_zpstc8xt4gu.jpg

 

[yorketransport]

You could try just loading the Bertram cases with a mild charge and fire forming them. The shoulders almost look like they're just not properly formed.

 

[jsthntn247]

Not what one would expect for over 3$ a piece.

 

[JMUPT]

I loaded one and fired it and had to turn thegun over and push the bolt open . It was way too hard to open the bolt for my liking.

 

[bsumoba]

what dies are you using?

take a fired case from the 338/300 ultra and measure using a comparator. then, measure the Bertram brass and see how much more it is.

try to bump the brass on the 338/300 brass that you fired with no issues. do u have issues bumping the shoulders on this brass as well? if so, then your dies might not even work for your chambering.

 

[R.Morehouse]

Just eyeballing the pic it looks like the Bertram shoulder needs to be bumped....

 

[KRP]

Smoke/magic marker/somehow color a piece of brass and see where the issue is. It will be a lot easier to find a solution once you know what area is actually causing the problem.

 

[JMUPT]

I have the redding S dies from defensive Edge, I have taken measurements using the hornady headspace gauge and it shows that the ultra mag brass is longer than the bertram brass. I tried coloring the case with a sharpie, but couldn't really see any marks on the case. I will try it again and post a picture to see what you all think.

 

[d.id]

You can bump the shoulder with a 338 RUM die. The 338 rum is slightly shorter but otherwise the same. It would be about $20 for a hornady FL RUM die. Would seam worth it to make use of $300 worth of brass.

 

['Freak]

The bolt closes offering no resistance on the Ultra Mag brass that the OP checks using Hornady’s gauge, etc., to be longer from case head to shoulder datum than the Bertram brass. So, bumping the shoulder ain’t going to fix his already shorter to the datum Bertram brass, there’s something else about it that’s causing the resistance on closing the bolt.

 

[GeorgeSpringer]

I went through a similar issue with my 338 Edge but with newly formed Nosler brass. I too had Defensive Edge dies but the chamber in my rifle actually turned out to be a 338 Edge AI. I tried 300 RUM dies and ended up simply loading a 300 grain OTM over 94 grains of H1000, muscled the bolt closed and fireformed the cases. Once fired formed I only neck size. Of course YMMV but this is what worked for me.

GSpringer

 

[Con]

Extractor groove too big by a few thou. Resulted in Rem 700 extractors struggling. Brass was made to 'published specs' but in reality I believe the Rem brass is thinner. Problem wasn't discovered until Remington 300RUM brass was actually sourced and measured. But early brass batches had already been dispatched. Locally, they just swapped over for later brass.
Cheers...
Con

 

[JMUPT]

Ok so here is a pic of the ultra mag brass measured with the hornady headspace gauge.
http://i808.photobucket.com/albums/zz5/JMUPT/IMG_20150905_090617_zpsxe9anaxa.jpg

Here is the Bertram brass
http://i808.photobucket.com/albums/zz5/JMUPT/IMG_20150905_090643_zpsrc4wezpk.jpg

Here is a pic of the case that I colored and chambered.
http://i808.photobucket.com/albums/zz5/JMUPT/IMG_20150905_125129_zpsqff6jtws.jpg

I have measured the diameter of both cases with calipers at the base of the case and at the shoulder and they are the same or the bertram brass is a little smaller. Let me know what you think, also as far as the exctractor grove the rifle has a sako style extractor in it. Not sure if that has anything to do with it.

 

['Freak]

Thinkin’ that due to the many times longer radius of the transition at both ends of the shoulder, the only hope for that Bertram brass is to pick up the case forming from where Bertram apparently left it unfinished by forcing the bolt to close on the mess so that the cases might be fire formed to nearer the dimensions of your particular chamber. First make sure that the trim length leaves room enough that the case mouth doesn’t dead end in your chamber, and make sure the bolt lugs have been well greased.

 

[ebb]

I wish I could be of some help. The only issue ive had with many years of 300 and 7 rum loading was a case that I missed when chamfering the case mouths. When I seated a bullet it pushed the shoulder back and it was a little bulged at the body shoulder junction. check for this with a straight edge along the body of the case. Where the shoulder meets the body it was a little big and showed a gap to the straight edge. The rum brass has a very crisp angle there and the bertrum brass is a radius (seems to me its unfired) that kind of resembles the brass issue I had. Hope this helps. Like Ol Freak says if you keep measuring different sections you will find a different number some where.

 

[ta406]

You might want to poke around the Precision Long Range Handloading section over at Long Range Only.com. I don't use Bertram brass in my Edge but I do recall this issue being discussed.

 

[Dirtball]

Have you checked with Shawn Carlock at Defensive Edge, since I believe he was the one who convinced Bertram to produce the Edge brass. If there are any issues with the brass he would be the one to talk to.

Dave


http://defensiveedge.net/

 

[JMUPT]

I finally got my brass to fit in the chamber easily. I ended up turning the die about a 1/4 turn past the point where the shellholder contacts the die. I plan on having my buddy take some off of the bottom of the die or the shell holder.

 

[bsumoba]

I finally got my brass to fit in the chamber easily. I ended up turning the die about a 1/4 turn past the point where the shellholder contacts the die. I plan on having my buddy take some off of the bottom of the die or the shell holder.

What press are you using? Most instructions will actually tell you to butt the shellholder against the bottom of the die, then turn it a 1/8-1/4 turn. So, I think you're gtg now.

 

[JMUPT]

I'm using a rcbs press, I thought the directions were to run the die down to meet the shell holder and then back it out a 1/2 to full turn. Either way I have it taken care of now. Thanks for everyone's help.