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308Palma Brass

I only found one thread and it was from 2010. (Concerning the decapping pin for Palma brass.)
I just discovered that I don't have a decapping pin in the house that will fit these flash holes. I even tried the pin from 9mm pistol die.
I have never used bushing dies so excuse the stupid questions.
I am wanting to graduate to bushing dies.
I want a bushing die that minimizes the double working of the neck.
I want it to also bump the shoulder and do minimum a resize of the body.
With a .334" bushing
With a decapping pin small enough for Lapua Palma brass. .055"?
I do not want to turn this into two or three steps. Decapping, resizing the body and then sizing the neck.
And I need it yesterday?
 
I use a redding full length bushing die and chuck the decapping pin in my cordless screwdriver and file it down till it fits the flash hole.
 
Call Whidden. They can do the die with the small pin or interchangeable pins, and they probably have it in stock, bushings and all.
 
Wes, if you have die from a 6Br, .223 or some such Small rifle Primer die set, until you get an extra pin, use it instead of the Large Rifle primer pin from a "normal" .308 dies set.
 
ShootDots said:
Wes, if you have die from a 6Br, .223 or some such Small rifle Primer die set, until you get an extra pin, use it instead of the Large Rifle primer pin from a "normal" .308 dies set.

Not quite. My 223 brass has a large flash hole and the decapping pin is bigger.

6 br would work though. There are others too.

Wes, all the manufacturers that make 6 br does can set you up. If you already have a die, give the maker a call.
 
Busdriver said:
ShootDots said:
Wes, if you have die from a 6Br, .223 or some such Small rifle Primer die set, until you get an extra pin, use it instead of the Large Rifle primer pin from a "normal" .308 dies set.

Not quite. My 223 brass has a large flash hole and the decapping pin is bigger.

6 br would work though. There are others too.

Wes, all the manufacturers that make 6 br does can set you up. If you already have a die, give the maker a call.

I wonder if there is a difference in the size of a flashole from one brass manufacturer to another? I had 2 / ..223's and as far as I could tell they used a "standard" (if you will) small rifle primer pin. Hmm that's why we are here>>>to learn something every day!
 
Polish the pin down until it fits the hole with space to spare. I have tried small rifle die pins and they were too large once the cartridge had been fired and carbon joined the space in the flash hole.
 
223 is small rifle. The pin is .062". The hole in the Palma brass is smaller than that.
From reading, the Palma brass does indeed have a smaller than standard small primer flash hole. It takes a .055" punch to get through. Redding makes one but their website is impossible to find anything and harder than that to figure out what is what.
 
I thought about drilling out the flash holes. Decided that part of the reason this brass withstands pressure so well is the small flash hole. Drilling it out would negate some of the reason for the Palma brass.
Ordered a Redding type S full length bushing die with a .334" and .333" bushing.(loaded rounds are .336") Here's hoping I can actually control shoulder bump and get some body sizing done also.
My experience with neck sizing only taught me that you will only get away with it for a couple of loadings before the bolt cannot be closed.
 
I just checked my Redding universal decapping kit with LG & SM dies with two decapping rods.
The rod for 17 & 20 caliber measured .057" diameter. The part number is #69500 for the set and
#69250 for just the decapping rod that only fits this die set, will not fit a regular sizing die.

I know you don't want more steps to you reloading process. My first steps to reloading is to remove the primer using a decapping die, clean the primer pockets, then tumble brass and wash, before I do any other brass prep. I don't want to run dirty brass through my sizer die and scratch/wear the die surface.

Hope this helps
 
To repeat what others have stated, I filed down a Lee decapping pin and use that for decapping all of my brass before I do anything else with it. It does add another step but I do at least scape the carbon from the primer pockets each time.

I know that the small flash hole is on Lapua 220 Russian, 6.5 Grendel, 6mm BR, and 308 Palma brass. There maybe others but I know these listed are small. I personally would not enlarge them, but would turn down my pin if I were you. I have seen where others have uniformed the holes for consistency but in my opinion that is splitting very small frog hairs (but so is cleaning out the primer pockets so what the heck do I know......).

I have used FL bushing dies for 308 for many years and never had an issue with them for the Palma brass. You will not have a problem with them either. Same deal here using a .334 bushing, though I have everything from .330" - .336" for the 30 calibers.
 
Something for you to ponder... You can't get an accurate shoulder to base measurement with the fired primers still in.. This if course means before any actual sizing takes place they should be removed.

How you remove them can be done one of several ways of course like initially running the decapping assy way down sonas to knock out the primer before the actual case has a chance to get sized in the die.. (This can have its drawbacks as you will be fiddling with your die quite often)

So when one talks about precision handloading , this is where the seperate step of decapping with a purpose built decapping die is handy.
 
http://leeprecision.net/support/index.php?/Knowledgebase/Article/View/734/14/lapua-brass-undersized-flash-hole--decapper-pin-does-not-fit
Lee’s support guy says: “The undersized flash hole should be enlarged with one of the commercial flash hole uniformers. Or use a 1/16 (1.6mm) drill. Uniform flash holes are helpful to uniform ignition.”

Not I ...
 
OleFreak said:
http://leeprecision.net/support/index.php?/Knowledgebase/Article/View/734/14/lapua-brass-undersized-flash-hole--decapper-pin-does-not-fit
Lee’s support guy says: “The undersized flash hole should be enlarged with one of the commercial flash hole uniformers. Or use a 1/16 (1.6mm) drill. Uniform flash holes are helpful to uniform ignition.”

Not I ...

Nor I. That is very poor advice. Flash-hole reamers if correctly specified should barely increase the hole diameter so the 0.061" BR/PPC size doesn't increase Palma brass flash-holes enough to guarantee standard dia. pins fit, whilst using a 0.081" type designed fror standard 2mm flash-holes on Palma brass or any other small flash-hole type risks increasing it far too much and thereby increasing MV ES/SD which defeats much of the object of buying Palma cases in the first place.

Flash-holes come in two sizes - 2mm which is used in all LR primer brass and most SR models (such as the 222/223 family); 1.5mm (0.059") only in .220 Russian and the PPCs formed from it, 6.5 Grendel which is an adapted 220 Russian, BR brass whether 6mm BR Norma or Remington 7BR, 6.5X47 Lapua and Lapua .308 Win Palma type. It was also used in the old Remington .308 UBBR Win brass for case forming to BR and of which there seems to be a surprising amount still around from comments by many 'old hands' on the Palma Teams Long-Range Shooting Forum (most of whom predicted that the Lapua 308 Palma wouldn't work as small primers hadn't worked for them back in the year dot).

For Lee dies and the Lee Universal Decapper, the only answer is as suggested to chuck and spin the rod and reduce the pin diameter with emery paper. It doesn't have to come down a lot actually.

Redding, Forster and RCBS produces their pins in the two diameters and the answer is to buy a pack or couple of packs of the small size - good insurance anyway as they're pretty fragile in this size.

http://www.sinclairintl.com/search/index.htm?k=decapp+pins&ksubmit=y

So far as the bushing die type you're interested in, you have three options basically, custom or semi-custom jobs based on your fired brass aside:

Full Length bushing sizer such as the Redding Type S. You choose a bushing size for the brass that reduces the neck O/D enough to just need the expander ball to kiss the thinnest-neck example on the return press stroke. Although retaining the ball, this reduces brass working very substantially compared to standard FL sizers and also makes the expand part a great deal easier especially if you've lubed the inside neck walls as well as the case exterior or bought the aftermarket carbide expander ball to replace the standard steel one. It should produce very concentric results with good brass. If using neck-turned brass, the expander ball can be removed and bushing sizing alone employed.

Neck size only such as the Redding Competition bushing sizer, otherwise as per the FL version. Doesn't have an expander ball if I remember right as it assumes turned brass.

The Forster Bushing-Bump die as a halfway house - a bushing neck sizer that bumps (resets) the shoulder position but doesn't touch the main part of the body. It has a decap stem but no expander as it assumes neck-turned brass, but a standard decap / expand rod can be bought and fitted.

I use the Redding Type S, but only for brass that is being transferred between rifles / rebarrelling to suit the new chamber. The Forster Bushing-Bump is my die of choice for an FTR 308 with a minimum SAAMI chamber and Palma brass. So far with loads that push the 155.5gn Berger to 3,050 fps or 168gn Hybrid to 2,990 fps, I've never had to resort to a FLS die to touch the case body with solely shoulder-bumped brass used in the chamber from new despite several firings. Cases chamber and extract with ease.

My Palma brass usually gets a light clean-up neck turn to provide near uniform thickness, so I could use the B-B die as is with a suitable bushing size. Instead, I prefer to go a thou' too small and use a Sinclair expander die with the same comapny's E30 expander mandrel as a separate operation. I discovered ages since that Sinclair's expander mandrels (designed for neck-turning) produces just the amount of neck tension that works for me and keeps everything very consistent irrespective of brass lots and neck-turner setting variations between lots too. This adds a second operation of course which you wish to avoid. The only way to do it as one step would be the Type S and a FL body sizing (nothing at all wrong with that) or the Forster type with decap / expand rod substitution assuming out of the box (non-turned) brass.
 
Lee told me the same thing when I called to ask if they had a mandrel with a small pin...just drill out the flash holes! I laughed and said "You're kidding, right?" He apparently wasn't. Chucked it up in the lathe and turned it to the size I wanted using 800 grit then polished with 1200 and was good to go.
 

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