.308 WIN Dies for FT/R

[Turbulent Turtle]

I do not touch the primer pockets with anything but a primer; the primer pocket is the determining factor in my cases' lives, no sense hurrying it along.

So you dont clean the primer pocket at all? No primer squaring tool? So did you not see any difference between clean or not?

Nope. nothing beyond what the tumbling operation does for the pocket. I also make sure there is no kernel or media stuck in the flash hole.

Let me just say that I never did conduct a full on double blind test to verify that theory. One day (several years ago), I simply stopped cleaning the primer pockets and shoving things in the pocket of Lapua brass and I did not detect any difference on the target. Over time, my scores got progressively better as I learned to shoot and at Raton this summer, I did quite well for me and never felt that my ammo let me down. In fact, I think I did rather well because my ammo was really good. During the last day of the Nationals I shot a 199-7X at 1000 yards, with my ammo that had been loaded the month prior during my marathon loading session for that trip. I shot 17 Xs and 10s in a row prior to pulling shot 16 a little bit to the left in the 9 ring but came back and completed the 20 shot string with 4 more Xs and 10s. (For those who are counting, I took 5 sighters as this was the first match of the day and I had thoroughly cleaned the rifle the night before. I always take 5 sighters on a clean rifle. Sighter 4 was a 10 and sighter 5 was an X.)

I could not ask for better ammo, and I just don't think there is anything else I can do to my ammo that would show any benefit on the paper. I use topnotch components and load according to the method I described. The last change was the use of a GP250 and Omega trickler for the powder handling and that helped reduce the waterline.

Once you have reached good enough, you work on your marksmanship. There are no "silver bullets" and you can't load yourself in the X-ring, you can only load yourself out of it.

 

[memilanuk]

Why would someone use a bushing die to squeeze the neck down to a certain size just to drag a ball through and open it back up??? It would make sense if the intent was to sized the neck to 0.002 under bullet diameter, but if that's the case, why go with a bushing die at all???

Because a regular non-bushing die will over-size the neck, and then you have to pull the ball back through that undersized hole - which leads to stretching the necks, screwing up neck concentricity, headspace, ugly children and all the other ailments commonly attributed to expander balls.

Using the floating carbide ball with a bushing die allows you to pick the appropriate amount of neck sizing to where the ball just 'kisses' the inside of the neck on the way out - enough to make sure its round without excess dragging. If you want a little more than that, you can.

It just seems odd they would sell a die with interchangeable bushings available but not interchangeable expander balls.

Honestly, I agree with you on this part. Granted, ~2 thou of neck tension seems to work *really* well, regardless of how you get there, whether its from a floating carbide ball or an expander mandrel or a collet die. But it would be nice to be able to control that a bit more. I'm not convinced it will make a big improvement... but it is intriguing. I thought Whidden Gunworks was supposed to be offering different sizes of expander balls to go with their custom dies, but I don't see it mentioned right off...

FWIW,

 

[Laurie]

The other reason in addition to avoiding over-working the neck that Monte mentons why you might use a bushing die + expander ball as per the Redding S type is that external sizing alone (whether with a bushing or custom dimensioned die) requires near consistent neck wall thickness, ie turned necks.

If the neck wall is not consistent around its entire circumference, external (inwards) sizing alone creates a perfectly round outside neck circumference but transfers any inconsistencies to the inside to produce a slightly out of true non-circular hole. When you seat the bullet it has to re-true the neck from the inside out and since it's a pretty fragile component (and we want it truly concentric with the case body), this is a practice to be avoided.

 

[savageshooter86]

Whidden should have the expander balls. Last I talked to him they were being made.

I have a 307 and a 308(something) ball from him

 

[rox]

Why would someone use a bushing die to squeeze the neck down to a certain size just to drag a ball through and open it back up???

As Laurie says, finishing with an expander (floating mandrel, preferably) lets you move the inconsistencies of unturned or uneven brass to the outside. But: if you expand *too* much you can introduce runout during expanding because of the different neck thickness stretching differently. So, by sizing with a bushing prior to expanding you can take the ID *just-enough* under the required final size, and thereby keep expanding (and therefore runout) to a minimum. You can use this with the Forster Bushing Bump die (or Redding Comp Neck die) for a NK process, or the Redding S die (or custom/honed FL dies etc) for a FL process. Bushings are also useful in this process to neck-down in steps if the total reduction exceeds 0.005".

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