308 Norma Mag Case Life

[eaglesnester]

I have been told by an old hand reloader that 308 Norma Mag is infamous for case head separation after as few as 3 reloads. I was told that two re-loads are a go and the third one is a probable case head separation or at least incipient case head separation. I know how to check for incipient case head separation as I have the RCBS gage to check. I have found his statement to be true at least for my 308 Norma. I can get two and sometimes 3 reloads then I have to toss the brass. Anybody else out there load for 308 Norma and have the same problem? I also reload for 300 Weatherby mag and I am now reloading this brass for 7 times with no sign of case head problems and I am loading max recommend charge with 200gr Barnes TSX in the 300 Weatherby. What's up with the Norma?

Cheers&Tighter Groups: Eaglesnest

 

[b00mer]

my 308 norma mag gave good brass life, but it had tight chamber, also once the norma 308 mag brass was gone, I started taking 300 win mag and reforming my own. That brass lasted 5-7 reloads

 

[eaglesnester]

Thanks for the reply. Have taken the Norma to a gunsmith. He put a go no go into the chamber and found that the rifle would not chamber on either the go or the no go but it would chamber factory rounds with no problem. He was very puzzled by this. He slugged the chamber and found that the shoulders were all wrong and that there was no place for the belt to seat in the chamber. He had never seen anything like this before
and wondered what the individual was thinking when the bore was set up. He had to ream the chamber out a bit and is now testing the weapon. He said that if had not been for the very strong Remington P/17 bolt action that the rifle could have blown up

 

[Winchester69]

Please let us know if your gunsmith has corrected the head separation problem.
.

 

[Winchester69]

Offered by Greg Langelius:

The rear lug Enfield configuration does not like hot loads, believed by some to cause case stretching and case head separations.

Greg

 

[eaglesnester]

Greg:

Yes you are correct about the Lee Enfield being a rear lug locking bolt. However the P/17 is not a Lee Enfield. It is a Mauser action locking style bolt. They were made by Remington and Edeystone in the U.S. for Great Britain and the U.S. military forces for world war 1. These rifles were chambered in 30/06 and the Lee Enfields were chambered in 303. The P/17 cocks on close.
I will let you all know how this saga turns out as soon as my gunsmith test fires the rifle and has a careful boo at the case.

Cheers &Tighter Groups: Eaglesnester

 

[Winchester69]

A correction is in order here: I am not Greg Langelius and do not pretend to have that gentlemen's credentials, at least as a rifleman.

And you are correct regarding my having confused the two actions. Actually, my brother had a 1917 Enfield that he had re-chambered to 308 Norma as a cheap means of alleviating the inherent headspacing problem. There was nothing fragile about that thing. He eventually sold the gun because the ammo was so much more expensive than the surplus ammo he had been using. He wasn't reloading, so he really solved a non-problem. That was nearly fifty years ago, and the story is neither here nor there except for one commonality, headspacing.

My take on what you're experiencing is a headspacing problem, but due to the brass rather than the chambering. Most belted brass is too short and, since it headspaces on the belt, stretches. I believe that the chamber shoulder situation in your rifle was an attempt at relieving the problem, a means of causing the case to headspace on the shoulder. Even with your tight chamber, the brass is still too short. You,or your gunsmith) can confirm the situation with the proper measuring tools. If this is the situation, the solution is in fire-forming the brass after having created a false shoulder on the case neck to prevent stretching.

Expand the necks of the cartridge cases oversize, and then neck size them down to chamber length. This way, the cases will be held so that the shoulders will be reformed rather the bodies stretching, avoiding case separations.

Just my take. I'll be interested to hear what your gunsmith's analysis is.
.

 

[eaglesnester]

I wish to thank everyone for their input on the old Norma. Just as soon as the Smithe test fires the rifle and inspects the cases for abnormalities I will let you all know. It may be a while though as he has a bum shoulder, something to do with the cuff and it hurts like stink. It could be several weeks before I get any feedback on the Norma.