.308 dies, which one, which method?

[desertrat]

First off, please be patient with me as I am not an expert and only going from what I've tried so far. There isn't anyone who shoots at my local range that has any idea of what I am asking about here (shoulder bump etc.)

I want to purchase a better set of dies for my .308 and I am not sure, after reading many threads, which method may be best. I don't know if I need them, but someone on my last post said I should be using better than what I have been:

A few thoughts to consider:

1. I have a neck size only die RCBS, a full length die Redding came with a seating die. When I reload, using 168gr AMAX, a loaded round measures .334" at the outside neck w bullet seated. When I full length resize (with expander ball used) I end up with .332 outside neck diameter. When I use the neck size only die, it measures .333" outside neck diameter after resizing. Fired brass is at .344" so it seems it's being sized down a lot with either die I have been using.

2. I would like to know what I really need, 2 dies, 3 dies?, I just want to be consistant. So after reading everything I would like to get a "bushing" die to bump back the shoulder for starts.

I take it that no expanding ball is needed with this one? What brand? I guess there are several Redding, Wilson, Forster, etc. I've read 308 article here w it states that I can send is some brass (fired) and Hornady can custom hone one to my rifle? Is that just a regular die and no bushing needed?

3. So if I get a bushing die, is that just to set neck tension? Or does it bump shoulder back too?

4. If I bushing die does just neck tension, then I should use a "body" die? If so, which one? And to throw it all off here, what about a Lee Collet Die? Does it only do neck tension, or size and neck tension? What is difference with a bushing die and a "body" die?

5. After that, I've read somewhere that a expander then can be used? I am a little confused (read old) and was thinking that if I body size, then bump n neck size, then I could throw powder and seat? Do I have to use an expander with bump or body die?

6. What is the proper order, and most likely what I should use?

My apologies to all in advance and thank you for your help. I've read too much on this and now feel somewhat more confused than when I started. I don't have anyone around where I shoot that seems to know anything more about reloading. I have been using the two piece dies that I"ve had around for years and only recently purchased that neck sizing die only.

 

[jo191145]

Judging by the largish neck dimension you get on fired brass I'd assume a factory rifle.

Heres my method for factory rifles. Many might disagree. Some studies would concur with them.
For a factory rifle I just buy a Redding S series full length bushing die. And Yes, I ditch the expander ball even on unturned brass.
If your brass is that much out of whack in neck thickness variations that an expander ball is desirable you've already lost the battle.
One die, use it everytime, less fuss and I've never found anything to produce better accuracy.
Keep it simple seems to work for me.

If your into tinkering you could buy a couple decent dies and fiddle around for half your barrel life deciding on all the parameters. I've done it.
Now I just go with the S series FL and consider it done.

 

[Leaddog]

Redding FL S Dies are what I use. Each rifle has it's own die and brass.

 

[Keith Glasscock]

I'm going to disagree here. With that large of a difference between loaded and fired dimensions, I'd actually just use the redding one piece die. What I found when dealing with that much neck movement was that a bushing die could not consistently provide good runout numbers. The FL die just kept churning out .0005 to .001 TIR even though I was using the expander.

If you want to get cute, you can have the redding die neck honed to the proper diameter to eliminate the expander, but I wouldn't bother if it is only giving a gentle pull through.

If you have the tools to check runout (or a good friend that does), just size 2 or 3 cases and give them a spin.

For what you are doing with the thinner Winchester necks (did I guess right on the brass?), I'd not bother buying another die. The Redding die is pretty easy on the brass anyway...

 

[Zia Hunter]

To answer your question, body dies size the case body without sizing the neck. Typically used in conjunction with neck sizing dies when fired brass reaches the point of needing to be resized due to tight chambering. Standard FL dies work well but there are large variations in neck wall thickness between various manufactures. This can result in variation in neck tension. The type S dies utilize a bushing which can be changed to adjust for neck thickness. I use Redding dies almost exclusively and have standard, Type S and competition dies and they all work well in the right application. When neck sizing, best not to use the expander ball. What you want to achieve is consistent neck tension and minimal runout.

 

[jonbearman]

Just use your std neck sizer and when they get hard to chamber use your full length sizer. With the .010 difference ,using bushings may not work as you shouldnt be sizing the neck down say more than .003 or .004 at a time. Basically you would have to use 2 bushings to step it down. If you have a full length std die,use it and a std neck sizer,use it. Until you have a minimum chamber with a custom reamer being used you are rowing up the waterfall.

 

[Heavies]

Again, I will tout the Lee Collet Neck Sizer Die for the neck sizing needs, and a Redding Body sizer for body and shoulder bumping. With the neck having to be sized so much, the Collet Sizer is your best bet for keeping runout to a minimum.
Set the body die to set the shoulder back after the neck sizing and decapping operation.
A good slippery lube and consistent application to the body only will ensure consistent shoulder bump.

 

[Scott Harris]

I think the most common answer will be to get a Redding Full-length bushing die. this will properly size the case to include bumping the shoulder and allow you to customize neck tension. A full-length non-bushing die might reduce runout a little but is more of a hassle because you need to hone the neck diameter and will need several of these dies with different neck dimensions. Brass changes over many firings and a neck diameter that worked in the beginning may need to be changed later. For that reason, the F/L bushing die is the simplest solution and you can't beat Redding.

Lots of folks recommend the Lee Collet dies combined with a body die. I tried this and found my Redding die worked a bit better and only involves a single operation.....that was just my limited experience though, won't argue with the many who prefer this method.

 

[desertrat]

Thanks all for the responses. I most likely will stick with neck sizer until I get something like an S die. I am getting good results on paper, just not with SD and spread as it goes thru chronograph. I believe some of the strings were 40fps apart and a SD of 16fps as an example.

Also, thought I pulled out the Lapua brass but it was a box of 50 Nosler. I have current 100 of Lapua brass and the Lapua measures .338 loaded, .344 fired. I don't know if that is going to make a difference with anyone's opinion.

If I send in some fired brass to get a custom honed die, what should I ask for with neck tension? I will be keeping/using the Lapua and tossing the Nosler soon as it is too soft (primer pockets get loose fast).


Thank you again,

dr