I have problem with some of the 7.62x51 cases, they will not flush fit in case gage. They will chamber fine in M1A and eject too. Using RCBS dies on Lee press. Case length is correct .Is it safe to load cases like that? According to manual it is not safe, but so far I noticed that some thing in manual are not always 100 accurate. Is it safe to load cases like that?
308 brass
- Thread starter ALBION101
- Start date
Most would recommend you do a little more checking to make sure it is safe. Your situation suggest the head space on your m1a might be a little long. Check the headspace on the rifle. Your dies and she'll holder may not be allowing you to push the shoulder back far enough to fit the gage. You might have a situations that works for your rifle.
Please measure and verify. Do you have a reloading buddy?
Please measure and verify. Do you have a reloading buddy?
Unfortunately I am beginner without reloading buddy. i would say that dies are setup properly since I was able to resize great majority of cases and they fit properly in gage. I am just wondering if others are garbage or still can be safely used. They also chamber in other 308 rifle I have.
Its likely that the base is slightly blown out or that the headspace is slightly longer than SAMMI maximum. If these are M1A fired rounds, Semi Auto chambers are usually looser and sometimes regularr reloading dies cannot resize the base enough to meat SAAMI. If this is range brass fired in a machine gun the problem can be even worse.
Interesting question that requires investigation...the gun headspace be checked...the headspace gauge be checked. And a 308 "no go" goes in the chamber but a field gauge does not ....it's safe to shoot. I check the mass produced gauges with the "go gage" and a drop indicator in a granite micro flat to see how far off they are. I have fired 8 thousand rounds through a factory 308 chamber that the no-go would enter, and almost drop closed on a field gauge. So use head space gauges to just shoulder bump your brass back .002 to .003 in your auto loader...and shoot the brass there. My over sized chamber was accurate but you could add a half grain to one gr of powder to get the velocity up.
If you have a friend with a standard 308 chamber in his bolt gun see how far your fired brass goes into that chamber, it'll give you an idea. Sometimes it'll be way back from closing the bolt, like a half inch because the case body is also larger in diameter. The military shoots many firearms with out of spec chambers past normal no go and even some slightly past field gauge in emergency situations, before they are pulled from the field, hence terms like "crappy machinegun brass" for reloading...and no funding from congress for rebarreling the guns, as more impressive projects are funded.
If you have a friend with a standard 308 chamber in his bolt gun see how far your fired brass goes into that chamber, it'll give you an idea. Sometimes it'll be way back from closing the bolt, like a half inch because the case body is also larger in diameter. The military shoots many firearms with out of spec chambers past normal no go and even some slightly past field gauge in emergency situations, before they are pulled from the field, hence terms like "crappy machinegun brass" for reloading...and no funding from congress for rebarreling the guns, as more impressive projects are funded.
If the majority of the cases fit properly in th.garage and fit your rifle use those, if you're comfortable with that. But here's the deal I have sized a thousand 50BMG cases from machinneguns and many times you'll notice there is alot more effort ..to size this 200 than the last 200...as some were fired in military chambers with more generous dimensions....when ran through the die they sping back more as the die sizing pressure is released...hence not fitting the case go gage to the bottom....but if they fit your rifle they should be to shoot, the brass just springs back more inconsistently with inconsistant cases to begin with ...Now if you're talking cartridge gauge instead of case gauge that's different! A cartridge gauge after the cases are loaded introduces new variables, like bullet seating, kernel of powder slightly bulging the neck. It's not easy to pin down all the exact variables without an experienced investigation. But I'd suspect it's just variables in case spring back if you're only talking the case itself...which would be fine to shoot if they fit you're chamber, but not quit all the way down in the case gauge...but you do not want to shoot any that drop like .005" or .006" below the bottom ledge of the case gauge, especially with an oversized chamber.
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A few years ago I had my M1A rebarreled by a competent gunsmith in Tennessee. When I got it back my bolt would close on the no-go gauge. I called the gunsmith and asked him about that. His reply " the M1A has a floating firing pin and will fire out of battery, so the chamber is a little looser than a bolt gun". Since I don't look up each time to make sure the bolt is closed, I accepted his explanation. It has shot very well for a number of years with full length small-based sized ammo. Safety is paramount. good luck..
D-4297
Gold $$ Contributor
Sounds like the Base has been expanded by the larger diameter chamber . Something I got to experience when I wore out a .308 F-Class barrel . When my "new" barrel was installed , my thirty or so left-over loaded rounds would not chamber , but New Lapua brass would . O.K. ! Found the issue , and got to pull the rounds . My question is this ? Since we all know that M1's are generally low to moderate loads , that would also indicate this brass could be re-sized with a small base Die , and used . Is there a reason for not doing so ? C'mon Garrand Guys . Am I looking at this wrong ?
I did not see if the OP said the cases are falling out of the case gauge freely or hanging up a bit . If they don't fall freely from the gauge he might need a small base die . If they do fall freely then he is getting inconsistent shoulder bump likely do to press flex/deflection . some shoulders are being bumped a bit more then others resulting in the longer cases sitting above flush in the gauge .
OP since you are new , please read post #28 in this thread . It's my post and is easier for me to direct you there then rewrite that whole thing here . This is to give you a better understanding of what's going on when you size a case and why . https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=608168&highlight=deflection&page=2
Let me know if you have any questions about this and I have a good way of reducing the effects of press flex/deflection , We can talk about that after you read that post linked above . Any chance you're in southern CA ?
OP since you are new , please read post #28 in this thread . It's my post and is easier for me to direct you there then rewrite that whole thing here . This is to give you a better understanding of what's going on when you size a case and why . https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=608168&highlight=deflection&page=2
Let me know if you have any questions about this and I have a good way of reducing the effects of press flex/deflection , We can talk about that after you read that post linked above . Any chance you're in southern CA ?
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There are things about reloading for an M1A that are unique. For example, the action is so fast that the case is still expanding upon it’s extraction. Many match shooters back when the M1A was “the service rifle” at Camp Perry only shot the brass 4 times and threw it away. They are prone to case head separations.
Where did you get this brass? Was it shot as new brass in your M1A? If it was surplus Lake City (LC) they I can garentee it was shot in a machine gun which have huge chambers because they have to operate very dirty in the field. What chamber is in your M1A (Factory Springfield Armory or custom?) How many times has this brass been fired?
I recommend you small base your brass for an M1A… but realize not all small base dies are equal. Some are larger than others. RCBS makes the smallest small base you can buy. Another option (which I have never tried but know guys that have done it) is the use a 45ACP carbide sizing die that has the top cut off to use as a push through die. If you are new to reloading that may not even make sense but there are solutions.
I recommend you google search “reloading for gas guns M1A” and see if you can find an article, I believe the US Army Marksmanship Unit has published one years ago.
Be careful loading for M1As… they can fire out of battery and when they do they blow up. You must be vary careful about your primer seating and sizing of cases. Trim each time too.
D-4297
Gold $$ Contributor
Thanks to @Michael C for filling in the blanks and providing the answers to my questions . Appreciated .
I agree it sounds like a small base sizing die is the likely answer. I would not throw the brass away based on information in this post.
I would simply add that if the brass is really expanded, you might get it stuck in a small base die, so its probably a good idea to size the brass in a regular FL die first and then size it again in a small base die.
That way you are sizing in smaller incremental steps and your brass will not get stuck.
I would simply add that if the brass is really expanded, you might get it stuck in a small base die, so its probably a good idea to size the brass in a regular FL die first and then size it again in a small base die.
That way you are sizing in smaller incremental steps and your brass will not get stuck.
Since you're new to reloading, realize that the sizing lube can make several thousandths difference in
full length sizing, all else being equal. The Hornady One Shot spray aerosol (On my ten scale -a one) is
the least effective. I would absolutely never use HOS in a small base die.
The Imperial/Redding sizing die wax works great (A ten on my scale), but is hand applied to each case.
Other lanolin/alcohol mixes in a spray bottle can also work well.
Plenty of opinions on these and other lubes can be found with a search.
You definitely want proper function clearance in the M1A and M1 garand.
Suggest you find someone with experience in these rifles to help you check everything out.
Measure both the rifle and your loads chambered in that rifle before firing any of your loads.
full length sizing, all else being equal. The Hornady One Shot spray aerosol (On my ten scale -a one) is
the least effective. I would absolutely never use HOS in a small base die.
The Imperial/Redding sizing die wax works great (A ten on my scale), but is hand applied to each case.
Other lanolin/alcohol mixes in a spray bottle can also work well.
Plenty of opinions on these and other lubes can be found with a search.
You definitely want proper function clearance in the M1A and M1 garand.
Suggest you find someone with experience in these rifles to help you check everything out.
Measure both the rifle and your loads chambered in that rifle before firing any of your loads.
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Good point about lube… never use HOS on brass for semi-auto rifles. I personally use Pam non stick cooking spray (actually the generic store brand) for all my full length sizing operations. Dump brass in a bucket or large zip lock, spray Pam on them (you dont need very much) and shake/mix. I wait a few minutes then start sizing. If you are seeing dents on the shoulder you are using too much; if it’s hard to size not enough. Cheap, easy, available everywhere and a can lasts years.
Interesting. Will have to give Pam a try.
Sandstorm
Gold $$ Contributor
This right here...
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
Put some lube on real thick at the base and size one, pausing for 5-10sec after you reach the top. See if that helps. You may need a bit smaller die. I recommend whidden for actually making a die to fit your chamber. Tell them its for an m1a and you want it to size a bit more at the base
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