300WSM vs 300WM in a long action hunting rifle?

[XTR]

I get that the WM has more capacity and can run heavy, as in 175/180 class bullets faster than the WSM in most standard configurations, but that usually compares a short action WSM and a long action WinMag, and never compares them with the long 200gr+ bullets that really challenge either platform in their OEM configuration.

I have a M70 in 300 WinMag that I have started trying to load with Berger 215s. I have changed out the magazine box the ejector and the bolts stop for the 375 versions and that will get me up to about a 3.65-ish OAL.

This is what got me thinking, the bullet is still well back into the case taking up powder space. If one were to load a 300 WSM in a long action you could seat the bullet (talking 215 hybrids here) out to the point that the bearing surface was half way up the neck and boat tail no longer intruded on the case. In a competition setup I’ve run the 215 at 2550 from a 308 set up for it so I’m familiar with reloading the bullet.

Has anyone compared the two in this configuration? i’m sure someone has, but I haven’t found it. In any case, F-open shooters run the 215 in the 2900ish range from the WSM in single shot long seated configuration with 30-32 inch tubes. If one assumes about 25 fps/in that’s in the range of 2800 FPS from a 26” with less powder. What I’m reading about the 215 in the WM points to about a 2800 FPS load when paired up with H1000, so it’s beginning to look close to a tie.

I’ve got a rack full of barrels that I have shot out for competition shooting chambered in 308 from my FTR rifles, but any of them could be cut back 3 inches and re-chambered and would make really accurate barrels for a hunting rifle and I am wondering if chambering one in WSM and putting it in a long action is worth it, but I’d rather not re-discover something that someone else has already done.

Before anyone goes off on the 215 is a target bullet tangent, I usually agree with you, but there is a ton of data from on game shots showing the 215H is a great elk bullet. Pls save that for another thread.

 

[46and2]

Fwiw, I've used 140gr, 185gr and 105gr Hybrid target for whitetail with 100% first round kills. About 6 years running.

In a rem 700 you can get a Wyatt's extended mag box, check to see if they make one for Winchester, if so I'd go for the 300wm. ?
Otherwise if you could throat the chamber for the 215s correctly in a 300wsm that will work.

 

[ShootDots]

I do not believe in shooting Big Game at ranges past 400 yards. There are too many variables that can take place putting the animal in danger of becoming a lost / wounded victim. Inside 400 yards, it is doubtful you or the intended game will know the difference. Put that 215 in the heart / lung area with either cartridge and you have a head to mount. I say go for the accuracy potential of the WSM..

 

[XTR]

Fwiw, I've used 140gr, 185gr and 105gr Hybrid target for whitetail with 100% first round kills.....

I’ve got a 7-08 that I use for pretty much anything smaller than elk. I run 140 class bullets at 2900 from.

This may just be me pondering options. I’ve got the 300WM now, but there is a fluted 30” barrel coming off of one of my FTR rifles This yr that would cut back nicely to 26” that has me considering options.

 

[46and2]

I’ve got a 7-08 that I use for pretty much anything smaller than elk. I run 140 class bullets at 2900 from.

This may just be me pondering options. I’ve got the 300WM now, but there is a fluted 30” barrel coming off of one of my FTR rifles This yr that would cut back nicely to 26” that has me considering options.

Make no mistake, I've had/have two 300wsm and on my third 300wm. The 300wm will out perform (more terminal energy)/ out run the WSM by at least 100fps with the same length barrel and bullet.

 

[Darwin]

In my WSM Accurate mags there is a stop built into the sides at the shoulder to keep the bullet from hitting the front of the mag under recoil. Does anyone make a long mag that has the stop placed for the WSM case?

 

[IdahoCTD]

When both are throated to max potential and run with the fastest powders the wm is about 75fps faster. A 300wsm with R-26 versus a 300wm with H-1000 is almost dead nuts between the two. Throw N-570 at the wm and there it goes. 75fps is about 50yds of effective range difference between the 2. Not much and shouldn't be enough to sway a person one way or the other between the 2 IMO. The difference in felt recoil is there though. Even with a brake the 300wsm has noticeably less recoil.

 

[FeMan]

I have a 300 WSM, 300 WM and 30-28 Nosler and all are long actions. The 30-28 is my favorite and my go-to hunting rifle. It is so accurate I can't believe it! It shoots quarter moa at 800 yards consistently and easily gets over 3,000 fps with the 215 hybrids and a 26 inch bbl.

Of the two you mentioned, my wsm is easier to tune and get/keep accurate than my WM. I use the wsm as a backpack rifle and run lighter bullets so I haven't tried it head-to-head with the WM. I have a tight chamber on the WM and curse belts often. Otherwise it shoots well, but 200 fps behind the 30-28 and much more finicky.

 

[Zero333]

I can't compare, but I can tell you with one of my 300win 26" barrel, I run 230 OTM at 2,820 with RL-33. This is in FC brass and 3.650" coal, 0.015" in the lands.
I haven't tried other powders with the 230's, only RL-33.

I was already set up for the 300winmag cause I have a hunting rifle chambered in it. That's why I got another one for target work.

But if I had a blank slate, I'd choose the 300wsm for targets and the 300win for hunting.

 

[Orr89rocz]

Fwiw i have a savage 11 action that came with the detachable mags. Those mags can allow up to 2.97” oal

I have been able to find a good accurate load at that length with re22 and the 210 vld hunting berger. Its at 2800 fps in a 24” barrel and no signs of pressure in my gun. Its long throated for these bullets though, lands touch at oal of about 3.097-3.100”.

I have a long action i thought about throwing this barrel on to seat towards 3.050-3.100” but i dont see that being an advantage with only a 24” tube

 

[XTR]

When both are throated to max potential ....

There is the rub and the point of the question. Throated to maximum potential to run the 215 Hybrid you need a freebore in the range of 225-230. In a WM that gives you an OAL of about 3.800. You are going to have to run a Remington 700 (ish) action with a Wyatt's box to get there.

I changed out the box, ejector and bolt stop in my Win70 for the 375 versions and gained about 200 thou on seating depth. I can seat to about 3.600 OAL give or take and still get them in the mag, but at that depth you push the pressure ring through the neck and the bullets are loose.

 

[IdahoCTD]

Wyatt makes a long box for the Win M-70 too. It's 3.825" ID length.

 

[XTR]

Wyatt makes a long box for the Win M-70 too. It's 3.825" ID length.

That would work.

 

[46and2]

Wyatt makes a long box for the Win M-70 too. It's 3.825" ID length.

True.
More good news is my R700 box was supposed to be 3.825 but came in at 3.840. I tweaked it some and ended up with 3.870". They also make a 4.0" but requires milling.

 

[D.Stone]

I have a SAKO TRG that was built with a 26 inch Lilja barrel, and chambered with an A191 Chamber (300WM with longer throat.)

I am safely getting 2950fps with 215 Bergers loaded to 3.700 while using H1000 powder. That chamber seems to shoot all of the heavy bullets pretty well.

This is a 5 shot group a friend of mine fired using 212 ELD-Xs at 2880 fps.

 

[46and2]

Every 300wm barrel I've had has been easy to tune.

I load for way over 20 different cartridges, if I had any sense I'd be loading for 6br, 300wm and 260ai and be done with it. It's a disease!

 

[46and2]

I'm going on a hunting trip tomorrow. This is my zero at 200yds. 1/4 moa

 

[Sniper338]

Make no mistake, I've had/have two 300wsm and on my third 300wm. The 300wm will out perform (more terminal energy)/ out run the WSM by at least 100fps with the same length barrel and bullet.

Which makes no difference hunting.

 

[46and2]

Yes sir, it matters. TOF (wind drift and trajectory) and sustained energy.

Unless you're hunting under 200 yards then, no it doesn't matter.

 

[IdahoCTD]

True.
More good news is my R700 box was supposed to be 3.825 but came in at 3.840. I tweaked it some and ended up with 3.870". They also make a 4.0" but requires milling.

All of the extended Wyatt boxes require milling on a Remington 700.