300 WSM for 600 yd BR?

[INTJ]

I recently built a 300 WSM for 1000 yd BR in mediocre to poor conditions. I have past experience with one that shot very well in that environment. It even shot well in good conditions at 1000 yds. With all the recent range shutdowns, I didn't get my 6BRA tuned in time for the 600 yd match last Sunday, so I shot the 300 WSM. It was a rare first relay appearance for me and conditions were decent.

The winning LG Agg was 1.72, mine was #6 at 2.57. I did win for score with a 147-6X. Now I had the least variation in group size of anybody. I shot a 2.36, a 2.50, and a 2.85.

I also shot HG with this 17lb 300 WSM. Its very awkward as this rifle recoils 3-4 times as far as a 6 BRA LG, so it's slow and hard to get 10 shots off in the same micro-condition. I watched that happen on one target. My condition changed on shot 5, I decided to keep running, and so I had more horizontal. In fact, all my HG groups had horizontal and I attribute that to being slow.

What was most interesting is I was shooting next to another shooter who brought his 300 WSM HG just to see how it would do. His gun weighed 70 lbs, and he is the winningest NBRSA LR BR shooter of all time. His gun recoiled about as much as a 6 BR LG. His HG agg was #3 at 2.90 and mine was #4 at 3.79. The winning HG agg was 2.79. I can attribute my .8" greater agg as simply the difference between a 17 lb 300 WSM and a 70 lb 300 WSM.

All of this leads me to think that the 300 WSM just isn't very competitive at 600 yds vs the 6mms, especially in LG class. A true HG 300 WSM seems to be fine at 600.

I am not surprised, and like I mentioned, my 300 is for those times when conditions are not great at 1000 yds. While the 300 WSM won't likely shoot as well in good conditions as the 6mms, I think it will shoot as well in average conditions and better in bad conditions at 1000. I have yet to beat my 4.71" LG agg I shot with a 300 WSM in 2006, though I have been close to that with a 6 BRA. I just don't think the 300 will run with the 6mms at 600 yds in average to good conditions.

FYI, I am shooting Berger 215s, RL-23, and getting single digit ES. At 200 yds my average for five-shot groups is .6" or .3 MOA.

What are thoughts and experiences with the 300 WSM at 600 yd BR? Perhaps @dkhunt14 or @dmoran have more extensive experience with this?

 

[Alex Wheeler]

It may not be the cartridge, I would say you should be able to squeeze a little better accuracy out of a WSM than that. Go through the rifle and scope, try a different bullet, ext. It may be tough in LG but definitely a HG should do better.

 

[JamesnTN]

I’ve shot my 12 twist in BR matches at 525 yards. I brought it out and got laughed at. Guys saying they’ll shoot circles around me. At the end of the day they were saying that’s one bad ass shooting WSM. I managed to win group and score that day shooting a 190 VLD

 

[INTJ]

I’ve shot my 12 twist in BR matches at 525 yards. I brought it out and got laughed at. Guys saying they’ll shoot circles around me. At the end of the day they were saying that’s one bad ass shooting WSM. I managed to win group and score that day shooting a 190 VLD

I do think a lighter bullet would be better for 600 than the 215s I am shooting now.

 

[rardoin]

John Myers won the 2018 NRA F-open mid range national championships using a 300 WSM scoring 1800-133x....did not drop a point out of 180 shots. Just sayin’

 

[INTJ]

John Myers won the 2018 NRA F-open mid range national championships using a 300 WSM scoring 1800-133x....did not drop a point out of 180 shots. Just sayin’

Yeah, but what were the group sizes? Also, at 600 yds I have a 1.25" x-ring.

 

[Keith Faller]

You may have to test that load at 600yd or 1000yd and slightly Tune it.
I’ve found my best 200yd tune always needs a tenth or two powder change, or a couple thousandths seating change as I stretch it out. I’ve tried just tuning at 200yd when time is limited and then there are good match days and some not so good.

 

[rardoin]

Yeah, but what were the group sizes? Also, at 600 yds I have a 1.25" x-ring.

That was 180 shots under 1 moa iver slow fire strings on pulled targets. Within those shots I know there were series of much tighter grouping shots. What it tells is that if tuned for the conditions of the moment, which can be done in BR unlike F class, the cartridge shows great potential.

 

[Drop Port]

I’ve shot my 12 twist in BR matches at 525 yards. I brought it out and got laughed at. Guys saying they’ll shoot circles around me. At the end of the day they were saying that’s one bad ass shooting WSM. I managed to win group and score that day shooting a 190 VLD

Had the same experience.

I'm not a competitive BR shooter but always liked to get out once in a while to stay honest. At a 100/300/500 g-hog match (all BR light gun) I was prepared to use my 6BR and the wind kicked up so I gave my heavy hunting WSM a go. It performed as expected for the conditions. On a calm day my 6BR will out shoot it.

 

[CaptainMal]

Had to shoot next to one of those in an IBS match earlier this year. Only one relay's worth but that was enough for me. The concussion literally lifted me up and my rifle just seemed to shudder. Darn ear protection worked but it was a brutal experience to be next to one.

The secret for me was to just sit and wait until that shooter was done and then start, using the time remaining. That shooter was the winner and I got a second. Guess it was a positive experience in some ways. My take is that cannon sure does beat down the competition in more ways than one.

 

[INTJ]

Had to shoot next to one of those in an IBS match earlier this year. Only one relay's worth but that was enough for me. The concussion literally lifted me up and my rifle just seemed to shudder. Darn ear protection worked but it was a brutal experience to be next to one.

The secret for me was to just sit and wait until that shooter was done and then start, using the time remaining. That shooter was the winner and I got a second. Guess it was a positive experience in some ways. My take is that cannon sure does beat down the competition in more ways than one.

I don't like how the brake messes with some shooters. In certain ranges it is really bad.

 

[INTJ]

So I just ordered a .308 bf BAT B bolt. I'll keep this rifle as a light gun and will be able to shoot it as a 300 WSM in poor conditions at 1000 yds. The rest of the time it will be a 6 BR LG. All I have to do is swap the bolt and the barrel.

 

[Mulligan]

So I just ordered a .308 bf BAT B bolt. I'll keep this rifle as a light gun and will be able to shoot it as a 300 WSM in poor conditions at 1000 yds. The rest of the time it will be a 6 BR LG. All I have to do is swap the bolt and the barrel.

I do this all the time with my dual bolt Panda, works good.
I shoot a dasher and a 300 WSM in it. At 600, my WSM is very accurate in the lower node.
CW

 

[shoot4fun]

I don't like how the brake messes with some shooters. In certain ranges it is really bad.

So many rifles with brakes at long-range BR now that is about all you will ever have around you. The brakes built like Harrell's radial brake are not too bad and, to be honest, I am never bothered by brakes when I am concentrating on what my task is.
The side port brakes like the Area419 Hellfire or APA LFB are a quite different story. They are very obnoxious some time.
A couple of the places I shoot have added blast defectors between the benches to mitigate some of that side port blast and noise.

 

[INTJ]

So many rifles with brakes at long-range BR now that is about all you will ever have around you. The brakes built like Harrell's radial brake are not too bad and, to be honest, I am never bothered by brakes when I am concentrating on what my task is.
The side port brakes like the Area419 Hellfire or APA LFB are a quite different story. They are very obnoxious some time.
A couple of the places I shoot have added blast defectors between the benches to mitigate some of that side port blast and noise.

No one complained at my last match but the one before one guy was bothered a lot. Brakes don't bother me, and mine is a Harrells radial.

 

[CaptainMal]

No one complained at my last match but the one before one guy was bothered a lot. Brakes don't bother me, and mine is a Harrells radial.

It is legal to shoot guns like that. People don’t complain as most all shooters are polite. I/we just “suck it up”.

That does not make the concussion pleasant or less obnoxious. I often hear shooters talk about the issue but rarely to the person causing the problem.

 

[INTJ]

It is legal to shoot guns like that. People don’t complain as most all shooters are polite. I/we just “suck it up”.

That does not make the concussion pleasant or less obnoxious. I often hear shooters talk about the issue but rarely to the person causing the problem.

Well, we are all friends and something is usually said. Last match the guy to my right also uses brakes, but he was shooting in the left side of the bench. There was an empty bench between me and the guy on my other side.

The Tri-County range firing line is great for a rainy day near Portland. It is well covered, but all the baffles and cover make it loud even without a brake. The range where I shoot at 1000 yds is much more open and brakes aren't as noticeable.

 

[dkhunt14]

I recently built a 300 WSM for 1000 yd BR in mediocre to poor conditions. I have past experience with one that shot very well in that environment. It even shot well in good conditions at 1000 yds. With all the recent range shutdowns, I didn't get my 6BRA tuned in time for the 600 yd match last Sunday, so I shot the 300 WSM. It was a rare first relay appearance for me and conditions were decent.

The winning LG Agg was 1.72, mine was #6 at 2.57. I did win for score with a 147-6X. Now I had the least variation in group size of anybody. I shot a 2.36, a 2.50, and a 2.85.

I also shot HG with this 17lb 300 WSM. Its very awkward as this rifle recoils 3-4 times as far as a 6 BRA LG, so it's slow and hard to get 10 shots off in the same micro-condition. I watched that happen on one target. My condition changed on shot 5, I decided to keep running, and so I had more horizontal. In fact, all my HG groups had horizontal and I attribute that to being slow.

What was most interesting is I was shooting next to another shooter who brought his 300 WSM HG just to see how it would do. His gun weighed 70 lbs, and he is the winningest NBRSA LR BR shooter of all time. His gun recoiled about as much as a 6 BR LG. His HG agg was #3 at 2.90 and mine was #4 at 3.79. The winning HG agg was 2.79. I can attribute my .8" greater agg as simply the difference between a 17 lb 300 WSM and a 70 lb 300 WSM.

All of this leads me to think that the 300 WSM just isn't very competitive at 600 yds vs the 6mms, especially in LG class. A true HG 300 WSM seems to be fine at 600.

I am not surprised, and like I mentioned, my 300 is for those times when conditions are not great at 1000 yds. While the 300 WSM won't likely shoot as well in good conditions as the 6mms, I think it will shoot as well in average conditions and better in bad conditions at 1000. I have yet to beat my 4.71" LG agg I shot with a 300 WSM in 2006, though I have been close to that with a 6 BRA. I just don't think the 300 will run with the 6mms at 600 yds in average to good conditions.

FYI, I am shooting Berger 215s, RL-23, and getting single digit ES. At 200 yds my average for five-shot groups is .6" or .3 MOA.

What are thoughts and experiences with the 300 WSM at 600 yd BR? Perhaps @dkhunt14 or @dmoran have more extensive experience with this?

I believe in most cases a 6mm will outshot a 300 WSM at 600 yards. Most of it is because of the recoil difference. You just can't shoot the WSM as fast and it tends to upset the bags more. I also believe Alex is right, a heavy should shoot pretty close to a 6mm. I believe maybe a different tune is needed for 600 verses 1000. The lighter bullet may help but I have no experience with any bullet under 210 grains.

Now if conditions get really bad the WSM should do better, especially in score. Now at 1000 yards, I give the edge to the 300 WSM unless conditions are really good. When you compare the standings of the 10 match aggregate at our club in heavy gun, the 300 WSM is always near the top in both group and score. Matt

 

[INTJ]

Thanks Matt!